Respecting religion???
Discussion
Einion Yrth said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Using the phrase alternative medicine to describe some nonsense supposed cure is like calling a stick an alternative boomerang because the dog brought it back.
Well it's an alternative to medicine.I Often wonder how someone who believes in religion would explain it to an alien that has just arrived on our planet.
The other test of often wonder about is if religion was 'invented' today would we allow it?
I mean many, many people mock those who try to make Jedi a recognised religion, but whose to say what the situation will be in 2000 years....
The other test of often wonder about is if religion was 'invented' today would we allow it?
I mean many, many people mock those who try to make Jedi a recognised religion, but whose to say what the situation will be in 2000 years....
eccles said:
The other test of often wonder about is if religion was 'invented' today would we allow it?
Of course we would. We don't have thought crime yet. New cults pop up all the time, and a cult is a religion minus time and numbers.These cults will either catch on (like Scientology) or not. That's how memes work. There's a bloke in Sussex who thinks he's the Messiah, and so far I think he has about 8 female followers. He's convinced them they all have to sleep with him to keep god happy.
Not sure he'll catch on globally, but he's having a good time trying.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
eccles said:
The other test of often wonder about is if religion was 'invented' today would we allow it?
Of course we would. We don't have thought crime yet. New cults pop up all the time, and a cult is a religion minus time and numbers.These cults will either catch on (like Scientology) or not. That's how memes work. There's a bloke in Sussex who thinks he's the Messiah, and so far I think he has about 8 female followers. He's convinced them they all have to sleep with him to keep god happy.
Not sure he'll catch on globally, but he's having a good time trying.
eccles said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
eccles said:
The other test of often wonder about is if religion was 'invented' today would we allow it?
Of course we would. We don't have thought crime yet. New cults pop up all the time, and a cult is a religion minus time and numbers.These cults will either catch on (like Scientology) or not. That's how memes work. There's a bloke in Sussex who thinks he's the Messiah, and so far I think he has about 8 female followers. He's convinced them they all have to sleep with him to keep god happy.
Not sure he'll catch on globally, but he's having a good time trying.
They should be free to believe it, and I should be free to mock it.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
eccles said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
eccles said:
The other test of often wonder about is if religion was 'invented' today would we allow it?
Of course we would. We don't have thought crime yet. New cults pop up all the time, and a cult is a religion minus time and numbers.These cults will either catch on (like Scientology) or not. That's how memes work. There's a bloke in Sussex who thinks he's the Messiah, and so far I think he has about 8 female followers. He's convinced them they all have to sleep with him to keep god happy.
Not sure he'll catch on globally, but he's having a good time trying.
They should be free to believe it, and I should be free to mock it.
eccles said:
If we invented religion out of the blue, with no prior history of religion you think it would be as accepted as it is today?
Religion came from the early days when, we think, people worshiped the Sun, and probably some feared the Moon. That's one I can understand. Without the knowledge of the heavens, the Sun going away every evening must have been worrying. Be nice to it and it will come back. They suggest that Stonehenge is there to 'worship' the Sun, the suggestion being that people in those days were a bit stupid. Yet I wonder. I'm of the opinion that they knew it would come up and when the next morning. Debauchery ruled.
There might have been self appointed vicars who said they controlled it and perhaps the people were nice to them, but they all knew it was rubbish. They just didn't want to upset the harmless old duffers.
So if we are nice to all the vicars of the various religions because we don't want to upset them, it shows that we've come nowhere in the ensuing 5000 years.
If the stone age bods had had the good sense to kick their vicars into the trenches around their barrows, we'd be much better off nowadays.
Derek Smith said:
eccles said:
If we invented religion out of the blue, with no prior history of religion you think it would be as accepted as it is today?
Religion came from the early days when, we think, people worshiped the Sun, and probably some feared the Moon. That's one I can understand. Without the knowledge of the heavens, the Sun going away every evening must have been worrying. Be nice to it and it will come back. They suggest that Stonehenge is there to 'worship' the Sun, the suggestion being that people in those days were a bit stupid. Yet I wonder. I'm of the opinion that they knew it would come up and when the next morning. Debauchery ruled.
There might have been self appointed vicars who said they controlled it and perhaps the people were nice to them, but they all knew it was rubbish. They just didn't want to upset the harmless old duffers.
So if we are nice to all the vicars of the various religions because we don't want to upset them, it shows that we've come nowhere in the ensuing 5000 years.
If the stone age bods had had the good sense to kick their vicars into the trenches around their barrows, we'd be much better off nowadays.
The concepts of worship of the Sun and Jesus (Sun of God) are well connected.
See this
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/songod_su...
Particularly compelling is the following; the idea that the miracles are copied from previous sun worshipping religion really jump out with things like "walking on water":
Furthermore, humans who worshipped the sun (i.e. perhaps respecting/understanding the weather when farming etc.), could easily have enjoyed a darwinian evolutionary advantage - hence it is also logical that those that evolved/developed a strong belief gene would have increased their chances of survival.
This is also linked to ideas such as rain doctors etc.
Hence belief as a human charateristic has been passed down to today - though these days the importance of belief in terms of survival/success is no longer directly related to the sun, and arguably irrelevant today - though has been irrelevant for such a short period evolution has not removed it from our DNA. That said it is possible that a strong belief gene may also lead to other characteristics that benefit the individual - a strong belief could lead to people being successful by acting with conviction/with a purpose. I have a theory that you could have a strong belief in either a religion or being atheist - and enjoy equal 'drive' and life success/pursuit of happiness. This would explain why intelligence/success is not directly related to having/not having religious belief, and why it is incorrect to suggest believers are 'deluded fools'.
See this
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/mistic/songod_su...
Particularly compelling is the following; the idea that the miracles are copied from previous sun worshipping religion really jump out with things like "walking on water":
sunstuff said:
The following are the main characteristics of the “sun of God”:
The sun “dies” for three days at the winter solstice, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th.
The sun of God is “born of a virgin,” which refers to both the new or “virgin” moon and the constellation of Virgo.
The sun’s “birth” is attended by the “bright Star,” either Sirius/Sothis or the planet Venus, and by the “Three Kings,” representing the three stars in the belt of Orion.
The sun at its zenith, or 12 noon, is in the house or heavenly temple of the “Most High”; thus, “he” begins “his Father’s work” at “age” 12. Maxwell relates, “At that point, all Egypt offered prayers to the ‘Most High’ God!”
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the “Sun of God” begins his ministry at “age” 30. As Hazelrigg states, “... the Sun of the visible heavens has moved northward 30° and stands at the gate of Aquarius, the Waterbearer, or John the Baptist of the mystic planisphere, and here begins the work of ministry in the Palestine...”
The sun is the “Carpenter” who builds his daily “houses” or 12 two-hour divisions.
The sun’s “followers” or “disciples” are the 12 signs of the zodiac, through which the sun just pass.
* The sun is “anointed” when its rays dip into the sea.
The sun “changes water into wine” by creating rain, ripening the grape on the vine and fermenting the grape juice.
The sun “walks on water,” referring to its reflection.
The sun “calms the sea” as he rests in the “boat of heaven.” (Mt. 8:237)
When the sun is annually and monthly reborn, he brings life to the “solar mummy,” his previous self, raising it from the dead.
The sun triumphantly “rides an ass and her foal” into the “City of Peace” when it enters the sign of Cancer, which contains two stars called “little asses,” and reaches its fullness.
The sun is the “Lion” when in Leo, the hottest time of the year, called the “throne of the Lord.”
The sun is “betrayed” by the constellation of the Scorpion, the backbiter, the time of the year when the solar hero loses his strength.
The sun is “crucified” between the two thieves of Sagittarius and Capricorn.
The sun is hung on a cross, which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter.
The sun darkens when it “dies”: “The solar god as the sun of evening or of autumn was the suffering, dying sun, or the dead sun buried in the nether world.”
The sun does a “stutterstep” at the winter solstice, unsure whether to return to life or “resurrect,” doubted by his “twin” Thomas.
The sun is with us “always, to the close of the age” (Mt. 28:20), referring to the ages of the precession of the equinoxes.
The sun is the “Light of the World,” and “comes on clouds, and every eye shall see him.”
The sun rising in the morning is the “Savior of mankind.”
The sun wears a corona, “crown of thorns” or halo.
The sun was called the “Son of the Sky (God),” “All-Seeing,” the “Comforter,” “Healer,” “Savior,” “Creator,” “Preserver,” “Ruler of the World,” and “Giver of Daily Life.”
The sun is the Word or Logos of God.
The all-seeing sun, or “eye of God,” was considered the judge of the living and dead who returned to Earth “on a white horse.”
Worshipping the sun is entirely logical as in ancient times it would rightly have been held in wonder at bringing life and crops etc. The sun “dies” for three days at the winter solstice, to be born again or resurrected on December 25th.
The sun of God is “born of a virgin,” which refers to both the new or “virgin” moon and the constellation of Virgo.
The sun’s “birth” is attended by the “bright Star,” either Sirius/Sothis or the planet Venus, and by the “Three Kings,” representing the three stars in the belt of Orion.
The sun at its zenith, or 12 noon, is in the house or heavenly temple of the “Most High”; thus, “he” begins “his Father’s work” at “age” 12. Maxwell relates, “At that point, all Egypt offered prayers to the ‘Most High’ God!”
The sun enters into each sign of the zodiac at 30°; hence, the “Sun of God” begins his ministry at “age” 30. As Hazelrigg states, “... the Sun of the visible heavens has moved northward 30° and stands at the gate of Aquarius, the Waterbearer, or John the Baptist of the mystic planisphere, and here begins the work of ministry in the Palestine...”
The sun is the “Carpenter” who builds his daily “houses” or 12 two-hour divisions.
The sun’s “followers” or “disciples” are the 12 signs of the zodiac, through which the sun just pass.
* The sun is “anointed” when its rays dip into the sea.
The sun “changes water into wine” by creating rain, ripening the grape on the vine and fermenting the grape juice.
The sun “walks on water,” referring to its reflection.
The sun “calms the sea” as he rests in the “boat of heaven.” (Mt. 8:237)
When the sun is annually and monthly reborn, he brings life to the “solar mummy,” his previous self, raising it from the dead.
The sun triumphantly “rides an ass and her foal” into the “City of Peace” when it enters the sign of Cancer, which contains two stars called “little asses,” and reaches its fullness.
The sun is the “Lion” when in Leo, the hottest time of the year, called the “throne of the Lord.”
The sun is “betrayed” by the constellation of the Scorpion, the backbiter, the time of the year when the solar hero loses his strength.
The sun is “crucified” between the two thieves of Sagittarius and Capricorn.
The sun is hung on a cross, which represents its passing through the equinoxes, the vernal equinox being Easter.
The sun darkens when it “dies”: “The solar god as the sun of evening or of autumn was the suffering, dying sun, or the dead sun buried in the nether world.”
The sun does a “stutterstep” at the winter solstice, unsure whether to return to life or “resurrect,” doubted by his “twin” Thomas.
The sun is with us “always, to the close of the age” (Mt. 28:20), referring to the ages of the precession of the equinoxes.
The sun is the “Light of the World,” and “comes on clouds, and every eye shall see him.”
The sun rising in the morning is the “Savior of mankind.”
The sun wears a corona, “crown of thorns” or halo.
The sun was called the “Son of the Sky (God),” “All-Seeing,” the “Comforter,” “Healer,” “Savior,” “Creator,” “Preserver,” “Ruler of the World,” and “Giver of Daily Life.”
The sun is the Word or Logos of God.
The all-seeing sun, or “eye of God,” was considered the judge of the living and dead who returned to Earth “on a white horse.”
Furthermore, humans who worshipped the sun (i.e. perhaps respecting/understanding the weather when farming etc.), could easily have enjoyed a darwinian evolutionary advantage - hence it is also logical that those that evolved/developed a strong belief gene would have increased their chances of survival.
This is also linked to ideas such as rain doctors etc.
Hence belief as a human charateristic has been passed down to today - though these days the importance of belief in terms of survival/success is no longer directly related to the sun, and arguably irrelevant today - though has been irrelevant for such a short period evolution has not removed it from our DNA. That said it is possible that a strong belief gene may also lead to other characteristics that benefit the individual - a strong belief could lead to people being successful by acting with conviction/with a purpose. I have a theory that you could have a strong belief in either a religion or being atheist - and enjoy equal 'drive' and life success/pursuit of happiness. This would explain why intelligence/success is not directly related to having/not having religious belief, and why it is incorrect to suggest believers are 'deluded fools'.
Edited by ///ajd on Friday 23 January 19:24
Claudia Skies said:
Agreed, but this longing for any "creator" is still a nonsense in itself. It runs straight into this problem,
Does the universe have an 'edge' or boundary?- The universe must have had a creator
- The creator was God
- Where did god come from?
- God must have had a creator
Everything has a boundary or a.point where it stops or ends so surely the universe has to too? And if it does what is on the other side of the boundary?
So the creator must have a creator because?
Just asking!
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Category error. The universe is everything there is, there is nothing 'beyond' the universe, because if there was, it would be part of the universe. One may as well ask 'What is further south than the south pole?' Space and time started with the Big Bang, there is no 'before' because time didn't exist.Gaspode said:
Category error. The universe is everything there is, there is nothing 'beyond' the universe, because if there was, it would be part of the universe. One may as well ask 'What is further south than the south pole?' Space and time started with the Big Bang, there is no 'before' because time didn't exist.
But does the universe have a boundary or does it go on forever?Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff