That Lunancy from the Greens in Full...
Discussion
BJG1 said:
No they wouldn't because pursuing their entire agenda would put off the 30% that voted Labour or Tory. You think if the Greens do well David Cameron's suddenly going to turn into a complete Eco Warrior? No, he'll instead pick out the more sensible policies which he doesn't think will lose him too many votes and which he hopes will win him some.
What will happen is we'll get more windmills and green taxes whilst the sensible coke and hookers stuff will be ignored because the environment will be seen as the policies the 11% are voting for. Likewise I quite like UKIP's energy policy and I couldn't give a damn about immigration however any vote for UKIP is seen as a vote for immigration controls.otolith said:
eccles said:
That could be said of any party. I doubt there is any sane person out there that agrees with every policy of the party they vote for.
"I didn't like the rest of their manifesto, but my mind was made up by the promise to get the trains running on time"Not sure I agree with eccles, I personally either agree with or am ambivalent about UKIPs published policies.
Can't say that for liblabcon or the green fruitcakes.
OdramaSwimLaden said:
The stupider they are the more they isolate themselves; they are doing a very good job at isolating themselves.
A bit like Labours election strategy of fighting the election on the sole issue of the NHS. Lets face it anyone who has the NHS as a voting priority would already have voted labour anyway. The rest of us would be rightly concerned about a Government that only had one policy/goal. They may as well rename themselves the NHS party. edh said:
Scuffers said:
Not sure I agree with eccles, I personally either agree with or am ambivalent about UKIPs published policies.
Turnover tax?Obviously going to need a lot of working out the best way forward, but the aspiration behind it is 100% right.
Like most things though, it's how the detail panns out that's the important bit, and UKIP's words:
UKIP said:
UKIP will set up a Treasury Commission to design a turnover tax to ensure big businesses pay a minimum floor rate of tax as a proportion of their UK turnover.
seems like the right way to go about it.Timmy40 said:
OdramaSwimLaden said:
The stupider they are the more they isolate themselves; they are doing a very good job at isolating themselves.
A bit like Labours election strategy of fighting the election on the sole issue of the NHS. Lets face it anyone who has the NHS as a voting priority would already have voted labour anyway. The rest of us would be rightly concerned about a Government that only had one policy/goal. They may as well rename themselves the NHS party. Gaspode said:
I think what I find most depressing about the stupidity and impracticality of the Green policies is that as a principle, it would seem to make perfect sense to live as lightly as possible on the Earth, conserving limited resources, not poisoning the environment in the pursuit of a quick profit, and generally looking after the planet - it is, after all, the only one we've got.
They could be a really good pressure group, keeping big business honest, encouraging the development of energy-efficient technologies, reducing pollution, and so on.
Instead they come up with this load of b
ks, and the result is going to be to turn people off anything even remotely associated with being 'green'. I despair.
Thank you gaspode, spot on.They could be a really good pressure group, keeping big business honest, encouraging the development of energy-efficient technologies, reducing pollution, and so on.
Instead they come up with this load of b
ks, and the result is going to be to turn people off anything even remotely associated with being 'green'. I despair.(OT but just been reading a certain book again and for a dog that writes in crayon, got the situation in one.)
Gargamel said:
edh said:
I think the notion of a society where families don't need 2 earners flogging themselves just in order to survive would be a good thing. There's more to life than work.
That is the message they need to get across, I fully agree, if they can limited the lunacy angle (eg defence policy) - and promote what sustainability really means for quality of life, then I think they have some valid points of view. But it is the barking nonsense which will get the headlines, and to pretend otherwise is to not treat the greens as a credible political movement.
48Valves said:
Gargamel said:
edh said:
I think the notion of a society where families don't need 2 earners flogging themselves just in order to survive would be a good thing. There's more to life than work.
That is the message they need to get across, I fully agree, if they can limited the lunacy angle (eg defence policy) - and promote what sustainability really means for quality of life, then I think they have some valid points of view. But it is the barking nonsense which will get the headlines, and to pretend otherwise is to not treat the greens as a credible political movement.
Also, as has been pointed out earlier, to the further millions who are attempting to fulfil their homeowning/consumerist dreams. You might not call it "survival", but a lot of them seem to think that way
"I was forced to participate with various Green delegates in some kind of non-competitive group bonding exercise where we all had to roll about on the floor. Someone let out the most repellent fart. It smelt evil but everyone present politely conspired to pretend that everything was normal. I sense something similar going on right now in the collective efforts of the media chattering classes to present the Green Party as a viable, vibrant and credible force in UK politics in the approach to the General Election."
Why the Greens are a not funny joke and wrong
Why the Greens are a not funny joke and wrong
turbobloke said:
"I was forced to participate with various Green delegates in some kind of non-competitive group bonding exercise where we all had to roll about on the floor. Someone let out the most repellent fart. It smelt evil but everyone present politely conspired to pretend that everything was normal. I sense something similar going on right now in the collective efforts of the media chattering classes to present the Green Party as a viable, vibrant and credible force in UK politics in the approach to the General Election."
Why the Greens are a not funny joke and wrong
Are you seriously putting forward something from a site as trashy as Breitbart by somebody as clearly anti-green and with an agenda as James Dellingpole as a serious argument? The bit you've quoted is from years ago, too.Why the Greens are a not funny joke and wrong
BJG1 said:
turbobloke said:
"I was forced to participate with various Green delegates in some kind of non-competitive group bonding exercise where we all had to roll about on the floor. Someone let out the most repellent fart. It smelt evil but everyone present politely conspired to pretend that everything was normal. I sense something similar going on right now in the collective efforts of the media chattering classes to present the Green Party as a viable, vibrant and credible force in UK politics in the approach to the General Election."
Why the Greens are a not funny joke and wrong
Are you seriously putting forward something from a site as trashy as Breitbart by somebody as clearly anti-green and with an agenda as James Dellingpole as a serious argument? The bit you've quoted is from years ago, too.Why the Greens are a not funny joke and wrong
edh said:
I do wish you'd post a warning before a link to that horrible website
Weak in the extreme, as per the Green Party manifesto. Shooting the messenger suggests neither of you has anything to say in countering the points made (including anecdotes relating to whenever which are offered in a current piece) about Green policy. Be assured that if there's material of relevance at that site it will get posted in future and if it offends your sensibilities that's for you to cope with.The line of non-argument you're offering mimics some sort of attempt at censoring or excluding sources because you think they're not sufficiently bien pensant or, worse, lack receipt of your personal approval, which is simply arrogant. The article linked to isn't the entire website, smearing it via some general hatefest is infantile. You both present as lacking the analytical skills to offer anything beyond name calling. That's based on evidence btw and the source for that is you two.
The content is as follows, by way of summary, so be brave and have a go at addressing it if you've got the knowledge / ability / constitution to cope.
1. Apparently the Green Party’s membership has now overtaken UKIP’s. I’m quite prepared to believe this but I think it says more about the fiendish zealotry of the sort of people attracted to environmental causes than it does about the Green Party itself.
2. You know how at the beginning of each new primary school year there are one or two teachers you pray aren’t going to be the ones to whose class your children have been allocated? And it’s not that these teachers are malign, necessarily. It’s just that they’re wet, agonisingly prey to all the usual PC groupthink and frankly a bit thick – so, while you know your kids won’t necessarily be unhappy during their year with Ms X, they’re not going to learn anything more useful than how to colour in a picture of Mary Seacole for their Black History Week project. Well I’ve met the Green Party’s leader Natalie Bennett and I’m afraid she’s one of those.
3. Watermelons. It stands, of course, for “green on the outside, red on the inside”. But as Matthew Holehouse rightly notes in this analysis of the Green Party’s policies, that doesn’t mean they’re as bad as Karl Marx whose main concern was the way wealth was distributed. No – and this really can’t be pointed out often enough – the Greens are much more dangerous than Karl Marx, because though they share his attitude to redistributionism they are also ideologically opposed to the one thing capable of offering each generation a better standard of living than the previous one: economic growth.
4. The policies for which they have agitated over the years – punching far above their weight – have caused the world and its inhabitants real harm. For the full ugly details read this damning new report by Andrew Montford for the Global Warming Policy Foundation called Unintended Consequences Of Climate Change Policy.
5. In office they’re a disaster. As witness the hell they inflicted on the Green Republic of Brighton and Hove. It’s redolent of the loony left Councils which ran various London Boroughs in the 1980s, only with added eco-worthiness. So: out-of-control spending and uncollected rubbish, but with added nonsense like proposals that everyone should experience meat-free Mondays.
6. What all this is really all about, of course, is UKIP. The reason the “rise of the Greens” is getting so much enthusiastic coverage is because the mainstream media appears to have decided en masse that anything is better than UKIP, even a party which, if it got anywhere near the reins of power would bomb the UK economy back to the Dark Ages.
Basically the above content reflects comments to date in this thread. It's not as damning as it should be, the Green Party attempt to reinvent marxism is hidden in plain sight, the reality of what's on offer remain hidden behind a cuddly green cloak of polar bears and kaftans.
Some time ago Green candidate Peter Tatchell set out what's going down by writing on RedPepper in 'Green is the new Red' when he said:
Labour's great, historic achievement was the creation of the NHS and the Welfare State but Gordon Brown is gradually dismantling it. This creeping privatisation of health and education is something that not even Margaret Thatcher attempted. Blair and Brown have out-thatchered Thatcher.
The only alternative?
This poses a huge dilemma for the many good socialists who remain inside the Labour Party. Why stay with a party that isn't even democratic, let alone socialist? What is the alternative?
The most significant left alternative to Labour is Respect, but it is politically compromised. Following in New Labour's footsteps, it has an authoritarian, command-style leadership that has declared it is not a socialist party. They even support the monarchy!
The possibility of securing socialism through New Labour or left alternatives like Respect is zero. There is only one left option left - the Green Party which is why I joined and why I am standing as the Green Party's parliamentary candidate for Oxford East.
The Greens are now the most progressive force in British politics. With our radical agenda for grassroots democracy, social justice, human rights, global equity, environmental protection, peace and internationalism we are well to the left of New Labour and the Liberal Democrats.
Green is the new red.
Green is the new red - an empowering political paradigm for human liberation which offers the most credible alternative to New Labour and the best hope for radical social progress.
Unlike the far left sects, the Greens are winners with a wide base of national support.
The Green Party manifesto is unworkable dreck as set out clearly in this thread, and any online article exposing their sum total of lunacy is doing a good job. What's on the rest of the host site is irrelevant.The only alternative?
This poses a huge dilemma for the many good socialists who remain inside the Labour Party. Why stay with a party that isn't even democratic, let alone socialist? What is the alternative?
The most significant left alternative to Labour is Respect, but it is politically compromised. Following in New Labour's footsteps, it has an authoritarian, command-style leadership that has declared it is not a socialist party. They even support the monarchy!
The possibility of securing socialism through New Labour or left alternatives like Respect is zero. There is only one left option left - the Green Party which is why I joined and why I am standing as the Green Party's parliamentary candidate for Oxford East.
The Greens are now the most progressive force in British politics. With our radical agenda for grassroots democracy, social justice, human rights, global equity, environmental protection, peace and internationalism we are well to the left of New Labour and the Liberal Democrats.
Green is the new red.
Green is the new red - an empowering political paradigm for human liberation which offers the most credible alternative to New Labour and the best hope for radical social progress.
Unlike the far left sects, the Greens are winners with a wide base of national support.
I once calculated that I could offset the annual Co2 emissions of my little old 911 by locking 4 greens in an airtight box for a year. I see they now want to outlaw meat eating. It occurs to me the most elegant solution appears to be to start eating people who vote green.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 21st January 22:42
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