That Lunancy from the Greens in Full...
Discussion
Andy Zarse said:
hairykrishna said:
It's not really in full is it? It's basically a lazy propaganda article presenting various policies in the worst way he can manage. There are plenty of crazy unworkable schemes to be found in the greens policies. Even so I think people would probably be better off actually reading the document itself rather than summaries of those ideas the Telegraph judges the most 'radical'.
You mean like you consider the pros and cons of UKIP's stance on leaving the EU? Or do you just scream "xenophobe" rather than engaging in an economic debate?Otispunkmeyer said:
Ok so that will force people into buying lesser damaging goods...perhaps more local made goods. But then what happens to the tax take and where will the money for £71/week to one and all come from.... oh right yeah! Narnia!
Durrrrr! Mr Thicko or what! Obvious innit... taxing the rich...It made for amusing reading.
The Torygraph didn't even need to do a hatchet job.
Luckily it doesn't matter. Although potential Green voters should definitely read through their manifesto to see if they actually want to vote for them.
This is true for any party, of course. One shouldn't succumb to the tribalism of the Labour and Conservative parties. One should make up one's own mind properly based on what they say they'll try to do.
I disagree with all of them as far as I can tell. I end up voting for the least bad, every time...
The Torygraph didn't even need to do a hatchet job.
Luckily it doesn't matter. Although potential Green voters should definitely read through their manifesto to see if they actually want to vote for them.
This is true for any party, of course. One shouldn't succumb to the tribalism of the Labour and Conservative parties. One should make up one's own mind properly based on what they say they'll try to do.
I disagree with all of them as far as I can tell. I end up voting for the least bad, every time...
Jasandjules said:
Neonblau said:
They'll need thousands of trucks to get the stuff into all these new shops.
No you don't understand, the fairies will deliver everything. Also the fairies will generate electricity..Andy Zarse said:
Otispunkmeyer said:
Ok so that will force people into buying lesser damaging goods...perhaps more local made goods. But then what happens to the tax take and where will the money for £71/week to one and all come from.... oh right yeah! Narnia!
Durrrrr! Mr Thicko or what! Obvious innit... taxing the rich...Gargamel said:
Assume the Green position for a moment,
Every Egg, Chicken Breast, Rolled Joint of Roast Beef and such will now need to be locally sourced, Free Range.
How much land would be required to maintain current consumption? if every beastie that is eaten on a DAILY basis, needed to be free range. ( I am assuming, that no importation of meat would be allowed )
I would be willing to bet, it is more than the available land in the UK
We'll have to eat less meat and/or find more productive ways of producing food, which would happen because there'd be a much larger commercial need for it so more would be spent on R&D.Every Egg, Chicken Breast, Rolled Joint of Roast Beef and such will now need to be locally sourced, Free Range.
How much land would be required to maintain current consumption? if every beastie that is eaten on a DAILY basis, needed to be free range. ( I am assuming, that no importation of meat would be allowed )
I would be willing to bet, it is more than the available land in the UK
I'm probably going to vote for the Greens this year. I think they'd be a complete disaster and I'm opposed to a lot of what they want to do but I agree with more of their policies than any other party and as a 26 year old, I think it's important everyone my age votes so the main parties realise there's an opportunity to win votes and start adopting policies I like. Briefly, what I agree with from the Greens.
More animal welfare laws - I don't see cheaper eggs as a justification for the way we treat battery hens, for example.
Move towards renewable energy - Whilst my preferred option is nuclear, my generation will need alternate means of generating energy in the future and investing in it now seems an inherently good idea. Cleaner public transport and phasing out diesel engines would be great too.
Turn minimum wage into a living wage - I think the minimum wage should be enough to (relatively) comfortably support yourself in all parts of the country and it's not close to that at the moment. £16k-£18k for working full time would be much fairer.
Scrap tuition fees - Whilst I don't think it's Green policy to reduce the numbers entering university, which I'd like to see and more practical skills taught in place, I still want to see University go back to being free.
Scrap HS2 - it's costing something like £300m a mile, which is a mind-boggling waste. For the amount it's costing you could hire topless models to serve champagne on all trains for about 100 years and nobody would give a s
t how long the journey takescreate self-reliant communities - I like this principle, they want to localise powers and create local economies. I'm in favour of that and reversing the increasing amount consumers spend with oligopolies.
This policy needs no further comment from me:
"The Green Party is opposed to all forms of censorship in the media and cultural activities for adults. The state and persons holding positions of power to control activities shall not censor freedom of artistic expression or freedom of speech. Where there is a conflict between the right to free expression or speech and the responsibility not to cause offence this should be dealt with by allowing the offended person equal right of reply."
Move to ban all advertising targeted at children of primary school age and under - fantastic idea, whilst advertising is necessary I'm very happy to make sure it's not used to indoctrinate children.
I also fully agree with this:
"Arts and culture in the UK is currently structured and funded in a way that gives the ‘bigger’ players dominance over smaller community organisations and individual artists. A healthy and vibrant society does not see a necessary competition between creativity and purely financial business concerns. Indeed much commercial entertainment marries the two effectively. This needs to happen on the small scale and through community-based activities as well as the large and more commercial scale. Our aim is to rebalance the relationship between cultural superstars and ordinary people. The present imbalance amounts to a virtual deification of celebrity superstars, which mirrors the economic divergence between rich and poor."
As a general principle data that is collected or generated at public expense should be made available to individual citizens for private use at no extra charge. Examples include Ordnance Survey mapping data and Post Office postcode data - fully agreed
The existing TV licence fee will be abolished and in the first instance replaced by a guaranteed inflation linked payment from general taxation. - Good idea, I don't like regressive taxes and the TV licence is one. Free public access to unbias information and reporting is absolutely vital in a well-functioning democracy
They're also the only party who have a sensible policy on ending prohibition.
nikaiyo2 said:
LMAO I thought the Telegraph article was a joke, then I followed the link to the GP website...
You have to think that the 11% who intend to vote green have no idea of their policies, if not god help us.
I think their supporters (particularly their recent converts) know full well what they stand for - this is the hard Left vote. This is for the people who blame every ill on "the rich" in general and "bankers" in particular. I don't think they're even watermelons any more, they're more like this;You have to think that the 11% who intend to vote green have no idea of their policies, if not god help us.
Edited by otolith on Tuesday 20th January 13:00
edh said:
Actually it would have a very positive effect on housing - which you'd realise if you understood the principles of Land value tax. That raging commie Milton Friedman described it as the "least worst tax".
The Telegraph article is ridiculous. Presumably because they now see the Greens as a threat rather than an irrelevance. I look forward to their caricature of the UKIP manifesto when it arrives.
I won't be voting Green. Some of their ideas are odd, some will be mainstream in a few years. They want to scrap HS2 and Trident - I agree with both of those.
I despise the greens and regard them as watermelons but you are right they do have the odd decent policy, which comes from looking afresh at every policy rather than accepting received wisdom. The Telegraph article is ridiculous. Presumably because they now see the Greens as a threat rather than an irrelevance. I look forward to their caricature of the UKIP manifesto when it arrives.
I won't be voting Green. Some of their ideas are odd, some will be mainstream in a few years. They want to scrap HS2 and Trident - I agree with both of those.
A land value tax, replacing tax allowances and most benefits with a minimum payment (topped up for the disabled) and decriminalising drugs and prostitution are all areas a radical reforming government should look at.
BJG1 said:
We'll have to eat less meat and/or find more productive ways of producing food, which would happen because there'd be a much larger commercial need for it so more would be spent on R&D.
I'm probably going to vote for the Greens this year. I think they'd be a complete disaster and I'm opposed to a lot of what they want to do but I agree with more of their policies than any other party and as a 26 year old, I think it's important everyone my age votes so the main parties realise there's an opportunity to win votes and start adopting policies I like. Briefly, what I agree with from the Greens.
More animal welfare laws - I don't see cheaper eggs as a justification for the way we treat battery hens, for example.
Move towards renewable energy - Whilst my preferred option is nuclear, my generation will need alternate means of generating energy in the future and investing in it now seems an inherently good idea. Cleaner public transport and phasing out diesel engines would be great too.
Turn minimum wage into a living wage - I think the minimum wage should be enough to (relatively) comfortably support yourself in all parts of the country and it's not close to that at the moment. £16k-£18k for working full time would be much fairer.
Scrap tuition fees - Whilst I don't think it's Green policy to reduce the numbers entering university, which I'd like to see and more practical skills taught in place, I still want to see University go back to being free.
Scrap HS2 - it's costing something like £300m a mile, which is a mind-boggling waste. For the amount it's costing you could hire topless models to serve champagne on all trains for about 100 years and nobody would give a st how long the journey takes
create self-reliant communities - I like this principle, they want to localise powers and create local economies. I'm in favour of that and reversing the increasing amount consumers spend with oligopolies.
This policy needs no further comment from me:
"The Green Party is opposed to all forms of censorship in the media and cultural activities for adults. The state and persons holding positions of power to control activities shall not censor freedom of artistic expression or freedom of speech. Where there is a conflict between the right to free expression or speech and the responsibility not to cause offence this should be dealt with by allowing the offended person equal right of reply."
Move to ban all advertising targeted at children of primary school age and under - fantastic idea, whilst advertising is necessary I'm very happy to make sure it's not used to indoctrinate children.
I also fully agree with this:
"Arts and culture in the UK is currently structured and funded in a way that gives the ‘bigger’ players dominance over smaller community organisations and individual artists. A healthy and vibrant society does not see a necessary competition between creativity and purely financial business concerns. Indeed much commercial entertainment marries the two effectively. This needs to happen on the small scale and through community-based activities as well as the large and more commercial scale. Our aim is to rebalance the relationship between cultural superstars and ordinary people. The present imbalance amounts to a virtual deification of celebrity superstars, which mirrors the economic divergence between rich and poor."
As a general principle data that is collected or generated at public expense should be made available to individual citizens for private use at no extra charge. Examples include Ordnance Survey mapping data and Post Office postcode data - fully agreed
The existing TV licence fee will be abolished and in the first instance replaced by a guaranteed inflation linked payment from general taxation. - Good idea, I don't like regressive taxes and the TV licence is one. Free public access to unbias information and reporting is absolutely vital in a well-functioning democracy
They're also the only party who have a sensible policy on ending prohibition.
Christ, where do you start with this? At the beginning I guess...I'm probably going to vote for the Greens this year. I think they'd be a complete disaster and I'm opposed to a lot of what they want to do but I agree with more of their policies than any other party and as a 26 year old, I think it's important everyone my age votes so the main parties realise there's an opportunity to win votes and start adopting policies I like. Briefly, what I agree with from the Greens.
More animal welfare laws - I don't see cheaper eggs as a justification for the way we treat battery hens, for example.
Move towards renewable energy - Whilst my preferred option is nuclear, my generation will need alternate means of generating energy in the future and investing in it now seems an inherently good idea. Cleaner public transport and phasing out diesel engines would be great too.
Turn minimum wage into a living wage - I think the minimum wage should be enough to (relatively) comfortably support yourself in all parts of the country and it's not close to that at the moment. £16k-£18k for working full time would be much fairer.
Scrap tuition fees - Whilst I don't think it's Green policy to reduce the numbers entering university, which I'd like to see and more practical skills taught in place, I still want to see University go back to being free.
Scrap HS2 - it's costing something like £300m a mile, which is a mind-boggling waste. For the amount it's costing you could hire topless models to serve champagne on all trains for about 100 years and nobody would give a s
t how long the journey takescreate self-reliant communities - I like this principle, they want to localise powers and create local economies. I'm in favour of that and reversing the increasing amount consumers spend with oligopolies.
This policy needs no further comment from me:
"The Green Party is opposed to all forms of censorship in the media and cultural activities for adults. The state and persons holding positions of power to control activities shall not censor freedom of artistic expression or freedom of speech. Where there is a conflict between the right to free expression or speech and the responsibility not to cause offence this should be dealt with by allowing the offended person equal right of reply."
Move to ban all advertising targeted at children of primary school age and under - fantastic idea, whilst advertising is necessary I'm very happy to make sure it's not used to indoctrinate children.
I also fully agree with this:
"Arts and culture in the UK is currently structured and funded in a way that gives the ‘bigger’ players dominance over smaller community organisations and individual artists. A healthy and vibrant society does not see a necessary competition between creativity and purely financial business concerns. Indeed much commercial entertainment marries the two effectively. This needs to happen on the small scale and through community-based activities as well as the large and more commercial scale. Our aim is to rebalance the relationship between cultural superstars and ordinary people. The present imbalance amounts to a virtual deification of celebrity superstars, which mirrors the economic divergence between rich and poor."
As a general principle data that is collected or generated at public expense should be made available to individual citizens for private use at no extra charge. Examples include Ordnance Survey mapping data and Post Office postcode data - fully agreed
The existing TV licence fee will be abolished and in the first instance replaced by a guaranteed inflation linked payment from general taxation. - Good idea, I don't like regressive taxes and the TV licence is one. Free public access to unbias information and reporting is absolutely vital in a well-functioning democracy
They're also the only party who have a sensible policy on ending prohibition.
We don't have battery chickens any more in this country. The Greens proposed method of food production will be HIGHLY inefficient, not more efficient.
The Greens want to scrap ALL nuclear power immediately, not increase it which is the exact opposite of what you want. Wind power is useless, on yesterday morning it was freezing yet despite the tens of billions in subsidies spent on windymills, wind power was producing just over one percent of our electricity. Voting for this is a vote for energy poverty on an unimaginable scale; you can't honestly want that?
We tried an incomes and prices policy in the late sixties/early seventies. It totally failed, lead to massive inflation which impoverished the poorest in society and lead to three terms of Thatcher. Is that what you really want?
Scrap tution fees. Fine, but tell us where the money is coming from to send 50% of school leavers to Uni?
No media sensorship? But the Greens wanted Page Three banned? How does that work then?
Advertising to kids. Probably tend to agree with that, but it's not a central policy and actually any of the parties could come out with that and nobody would really disagree.
The arts. God help us. You're saying, in effect, put an end to the Royal Shakespear Company and spend the money on local amateur dramatics? No doubt with a Green/leftwing message. Imagine an a pro-UKIP arts troupe trying to get money for a play about the EU? Controlling the arts is simply state control of freedom of expression and thought.
Free data? Free OS maps for all! Shake that magic money tree again!
The BBC? You want it to become reliant directly on the state. o it won't become Pravda then (even more than it is now)?
The Lib Dems stance on drugs is similar, to end prohibition, and some Tories would agree too. What you don't say is how drugs would be distributed or controlled. A free market? No taxes? Any regulation? Any quality control? Yet again, a big idea, no detail on how it would work. Total cop out.
Gargamel said:
Large Schools with more than 700 pupils broken up and "localised"
Actually, I'd vote for that. If we got kids walking to small, local schools they'd be healthier and the roads would be less congested. I was always within walking distance of school when I was a kid. Then, most of the small schools were closed and the few remaining ones expanded and kids bussed to large, intimidating, impersonal schools instead ... and the roads all ground to a halt.The rest, however, is pure lunacy. The bit about being allowed coke and hookers is nice, but we'd have no money left to pay for them with all the tax levied against the purchase of a Lamborghini.
MitchT said:
Actually, I'd vote for that. If we got kids walking to small, local schools they'd be healthier and the roads would be less congested. I was always within walking distance of school when I was a kid. Then, most of the small schools were closed and the few remaining ones expanded and kids bussed to large, intimidating, impersonal schools instead ... and the roads all ground to a halt.
The rest, however, is pure lunacy. The bit about being allowed coke and hookers is nice, but we'd have no money left to pay for them with all the tax levied against the purchase of a Lamborghini.
How would that be funded? Building new schools is expensive, and polluting.The rest, however, is pure lunacy. The bit about being allowed coke and hookers is nice, but we'd have no money left to pay for them with all the tax levied against the purchase of a Lamborghini.
Andy Zarse said:
The Greens want to scrap ALL nuclear power immediately, not increase it which is the exact opposite of what you want. Wind power is useless, on yesterday morning it was freezing yet despite the tens of billions in subsidies spent on windymills, wind power was producing just over one percent of our electricity. Voting for this is a vote for energy poverty on an unimaginable scale; you can't honestly want that?
Yesterday we came pretty close to needing to fire up reserves (at ~6:30PM)Yazar said:
Best bit is that Brighton under Greens ranks 302nd out of 326 councils for its recycling record 
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/11526891.Sussex_cou...
http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/11526891.Sussex_cou...
MitchT said:
...but we'd have no money left to pay for them with all the tax levied against the purchase of a Lamborghini.
France does this, it's been highly successful. Last year luxury taxes on Rolls-Royce motor cars raised exactly EU0.00, since Rolls didn't register one single new car sale in France in 2104. Or the year before. There isn't even a Rolls dealer in the whole of France, so they don't get payroll taxes either. It's a terrific policy which has many advantages.Loads sold in Switzerland and Monaco though...
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