Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
Ahimoth said:
Finlandia said:
Sadly it seems that way to me, I can't remember the last time I saw a car jump a red light, go the wrong way up a one way street or drive without any lights in the dark. I see cyclists do those things all the time.
Why is this, I really don't know.
You keep saying this, and yet I see these things regularly.Why is this, I really don't know.
I live on a one way street. Someone drives the wrong way along it (often in reverse) about once a week. Jumping red lights - see it regularly. Cars without lights, not that often, but improper lighting all the time.
There's a junction near me that has you sit well into the middle of it waiting to turn right, from either direction. Quite frequently I'll be there, the lights will change and a couple more cars will go through. In those circumstances, by the time I've completed my turn, the cars now coming from behind me have a green light.
Occasionally there will be two or three cars waiting to turn right, and you can have problems. I've been at the back of that, just past my lights, seen the lights change and cars go through. At times, it's safer to stay where you are, past the lights but not obstructing the junction.
Cyclists going through reds at any point isn't clever, but this "it's only just gone red" thing that comes up when cars do it isn't mitigation.
Occasionally there will be two or three cars waiting to turn right, and you can have problems. I've been at the back of that, just past my lights, seen the lights change and cars go through. At times, it's safer to stay where you are, past the lights but not obstructing the junction.
Cyclists going through reds at any point isn't clever, but this "it's only just gone red" thing that comes up when cars do it isn't mitigation.
saaby93 said:
Have any of these collions in London have been to do with traffic lights, if they have can someone post it up?
Or have we drifted away from the thread topic
I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone being hurt by an rlj cyclist, but there is a theory that because women are more likely to stop at a red light it's them that's being flattened. Or have we drifted away from the thread topic
heebeegeetee said:
saaby93 said:
Have any of these collions in London have been to do with traffic lights, if they have can someone post it up?
Or have we drifted away from the thread topic
I'm not sure I've ever heard of anyone being hurt by an rlj cyclist, but there is a theory that because women are more likely to stop at a red light it's them that's being flattened. Or have we drifted away from the thread topic
Where are the collisions at traffic lights that support it?
Next you'll be saying that because women are women they're more likely to be flattened
Oh wait that may be true
But why? and what can be done about it?
And dont say allow women to jump red lights
Whats inherent in the design or use of the roads?
aclivity said:
hmmm: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vDvrkJkCdJg
Outcome: http://road.cc/content/news/152934-video-road-rage...
Are we wasting money building cycle lanes, if the cyclist do not like using them? Are they just for kids?Outcome: http://road.cc/content/news/152934-video-road-rage...
Edited by aclivity on Monday 1st June 11:44
Ahimoth said:
Cyclists going through reds at any point isn't clever, but this "it's only just gone red" thing that comes up when cars do it isn't mitigation.
I'm not sure where the idea that cars don't jump red lights very often comes from, I see it reasonably often, as much, if not more than cyclists in my neck of the woods. Why would there have been the investment in cameras if there was no issue?jonny996 said:
Are we wasting money building cycle lanes, if the cyclist do not like using them? Are they just for kids?
They are a good way of getting people to cycle that are less confident, problem is that they are not always well designed, especially when allowing space for motor traffic. Sometimes the more confident cyclist will continue to use the carriageway (like they are entitled to do) as it can be faster, especially once the cycle lane reaches capacity.yonex said:
Ahimoth said:
Cyclists going through reds at any point isn't clever, but this "it's only just gone red" thing that comes up when cars do it isn't mitigation.
I'm not sure where the idea that cars don't jump red lights very often comes from, I see it reasonably often, as much, if not more than cyclists in my neck of the woods. Why would there have been the investment in cameras if there was no issue?In short many cycle lanes are poorly thought out and as a result are a waste of space and money. Why would you use a cycle lane if as many are they:
1. Suddenly vanish
2. Result in you having to dodge pedestrians and cycle excessively slowly or risk injuring someone, you may as well walk if that is the case. Any shared pedestrian/cycle routes are a bad idea. Spend a few days in a dutch city as a pedestrian and you soon learn not to walk in the cycle paths.
3. Have numerous side roads etc that if on the major road you would have priority over but on the cycle path have to give way for.
4. The council kindly put road furniture in the middle of the so called cycle path
5. Have a broken poor surface
As for the video, the driver of the disco wants locking up, the cyclists were riding sensibly and legally. It is very unusual for a cyclist to have any affect on a motorists journey time, even if it takes the motorist a few minutes to find a safe place to pass the odds are they will soon be back behind the same car they were in the first place.
As a cyclist and a driver we need to be more tolerant, unfortunately there are as with all activities those who jump red lights ride on the pavement etc who give the rest a bad name. I believe this is worse in London maybe but as I avoid the place as much as possible I couldn't comment.
The top gear episode when clarkson tried to ride around london could have made a much stronger point to highlight how dangerous it is on a bike there and how buses in particular in which ever city you ride seem to want to kill you!
1. Suddenly vanish
2. Result in you having to dodge pedestrians and cycle excessively slowly or risk injuring someone, you may as well walk if that is the case. Any shared pedestrian/cycle routes are a bad idea. Spend a few days in a dutch city as a pedestrian and you soon learn not to walk in the cycle paths.
3. Have numerous side roads etc that if on the major road you would have priority over but on the cycle path have to give way for.
4. The council kindly put road furniture in the middle of the so called cycle path
5. Have a broken poor surface
As for the video, the driver of the disco wants locking up, the cyclists were riding sensibly and legally. It is very unusual for a cyclist to have any affect on a motorists journey time, even if it takes the motorist a few minutes to find a safe place to pass the odds are they will soon be back behind the same car they were in the first place.
As a cyclist and a driver we need to be more tolerant, unfortunately there are as with all activities those who jump red lights ride on the pavement etc who give the rest a bad name. I believe this is worse in London maybe but as I avoid the place as much as possible I couldn't comment.
The top gear episode when clarkson tried to ride around london could have made a much stronger point to highlight how dangerous it is on a bike there and how buses in particular in which ever city you ride seem to want to kill you!
Type R Tom said:
They are a good way of getting people to cycle that are less confident, problem is that they are not always well designed, especially when allowing space for motor traffic. Sometimes the more confident cyclist will continue to use the carriageway (like they are entitled to do) as it can be faster, especially once the cycle lane reaches capacity.
In that case wouldn't it better for the councils to spend the money improving the road surface so more of the road is usable. I can understand why many cyclists position themselves quite a way from the edge of the road due to pot holes and sunken drain covers etc. If money was spent fixing this then it would make the road more usable for all traffic.plasticpig said:
Type R Tom said:
They are a good way of getting people to cycle that are less confident, problem is that they are not always well designed, especially when allowing space for motor traffic. Sometimes the more confident cyclist will continue to use the carriageway (like they are entitled to do) as it can be faster, especially once the cycle lane reaches capacity.
In that case wouldn't it better for the councils to spend the money improving the road surface so more of the road is usable. I can understand why many cyclists position themselves quite a way from the edge of the road due to pot holes and sunken drain covers etc. If money was spent fixing this then it would make the road more usable for all traffic.You end up with a situation where they are no-good for anybody. They are more dangerous and inconvenient for a fast adult cyclist like me, yet useless for less confident or weaker cyclists because they abandon them when they are most needed. If you are prepared to tackle the hard parts then you don't need a cycle lane on the easy parts. Is it any surprise that few people use them?
If you want to solve this problem then cycle lanes need to go somewhere, with proper signage and no disappearing when the going gets tough. Look at any cycle lane where that is the case and it'll be packed with cyclists, but unfortunately they are few and far between.
Mr Will said:
plasticpig said:
Type R Tom said:
They are a good way of getting people to cycle that are less confident, problem is that they are not always well designed, especially when allowing space for motor traffic. Sometimes the more confident cyclist will continue to use the carriageway (like they are entitled to do) as it can be faster, especially once the cycle lane reaches capacity.
In that case wouldn't it better for the councils to spend the money improving the road surface so more of the road is usable. I can understand why many cyclists position themselves quite a way from the edge of the road due to pot holes and sunken drain covers etc. If money was spent fixing this then it would make the road more usable for all traffic.You end up with a situation where they are no-good for anybody. They are more dangerous and inconvenient for a fast adult cyclist like me, yet useless for less confident or weaker cyclists because they abandon them when they are most needed. If you are prepared to tackle the hard parts then you don't need a cycle lane on the easy parts. Is it any surprise that few people use them?
If you want to solve this problem then cycle lanes need to go somewhere, with proper signage and no disappearing when the going gets tough. Look at any cycle lane where that is the case and it'll be packed with cyclists, but unfortunately they are few and far between.
Plenty of other countries have done it, Dutch, Germans, Danish etc. and now the Americans, have a look at the new infrastructure they are designing and implementing in New York and Chicago.
It’s a sorry state of affairs when we are being out done by the Yanks when it comes to cycling!
Finlandia said:
Why is the human behaviour irrelevant? As someone here already mentioned, we tend to do all sorts of stupid stuff if we think we can get away with it, as a driver you can't get away with the most idiotic antics, on a bike you can, so as per post I replied to, yes people seem to forget the rules when they are cycling.
I see at least as many drivers running reds or ambers as cyclists, and far more dangerously.I see drivers doing "idiotic antics" every day, with little chance of enforcement.
Type R Tom said:
I agree to a point, problem is that highway engineers have an awful lot of balls to juggle when it comes to keeping everyone happy and there is only a limited amount of space out there (particularly in London). If engineers were given carte blanche to design cycling infrastructure we could do some good stuff but when you need to take into account junctions capacities, on street parking etc. and existing highway law (that in some cases is out of date and takes a long time to change) you are always working with one hand tied behind your back. Just look at the fuss that has been kicked up in London with the various segregated schemes
Plenty of other countries have done it, Dutch, Germans, Danish etc. and now the Americans, have a look at the new infrastructure they are designing and implementing in New York and Chicago.
It’s a sorry state of affairs when we are being out done by the Yanks when it comes to cycling!
I just had a thought that you could build overhead cycle lanes in London. Then I thought that's a silly idea. But googling shows there is already a a proposalto build them above railway lines.Plenty of other countries have done it, Dutch, Germans, Danish etc. and now the Americans, have a look at the new infrastructure they are designing and implementing in New York and Chicago.
It’s a sorry state of affairs when we are being out done by the Yanks when it comes to cycling!
okgo said:
aclivity said:
I see it every single day.
Yep, f
k it, I might just head down to the crossing by my office and film for a couple of minutes, buses, cars, bikes, they all jump red lights with alarming regularity.I appreciate cars sneaking through on amber or red happens and is VERY VERY BAD but in terms of degrees of wrong, there's a difference between going through a just changed light and driving / cycling through long after everyone else has stopped.
Hackney said:
But I bet you've never seen a line of cars waiting at a red line when another car drives around them and continues through the red light?
I appreciate cars sneaking through on amber or red happens and is VERY VERY BAD but in terms of degrees of wrong, there's a difference between going through a just changed light and driving / cycling through long after everyone else has stopped.
I see that quite often, to be honest - not when I am on my bike, but in my car.I appreciate cars sneaking through on amber or red happens and is VERY VERY BAD but in terms of degrees of wrong, there's a difference between going through a just changed light and driving / cycling through long after everyone else has stopped.
Every single day I have to go through a reduced width bit of road. Big white arrow (the "main route" is in MY direction. Most days I have to avoid cars deciding that I am only a bike, I will move for them. They get a bit of a surprise when I decide not to move over.
Throwing my 2p in because I am tired and grumpy today.
Most of the accidents I have witnessed between cars and cyclists (and working in London I have seen quite a few first hand) can be classed largely under 2 banners;
1: Drivers not paying attention to Cyclists and not seeing them, pulling out into their path
2: Cyclists with no road awareness being in the wrong place, where cars are not EXPECTING them to be, and being caught out.This is by far the most common for me.
That and idiots jumping reds. If they are on the road, follow the rules
From my experience, the general standard of cycling in London is quite poor - many feel comfortable taking shortcuts and relying upon a car to see them.
The reality is a bike is often hard to spot when not in the place it should be.
Most of the accidents I have witnessed between cars and cyclists (and working in London I have seen quite a few first hand) can be classed largely under 2 banners;
1: Drivers not paying attention to Cyclists and not seeing them, pulling out into their path
2: Cyclists with no road awareness being in the wrong place, where cars are not EXPECTING them to be, and being caught out.This is by far the most common for me.
That and idiots jumping reds. If they are on the road, follow the rules
From my experience, the general standard of cycling in London is quite poor - many feel comfortable taking shortcuts and relying upon a car to see them.
The reality is a bike is often hard to spot when not in the place it should be.
aclivity said:
Where should they be?
I should have elaborated - largely lane discipline at junctions, cutting across traffic and being in the wrong lane, then weaving across traffic to get in the correct lane.This isnt an isolated case, and is a real problem I find. Cyclists should have a level of understanding of the road, so that they can competently negotiate a junction without putting themselves at risk. There are a worrying amount that do not
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