Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
To me the cyclists appear to be completely ignoring the first junction/turning, and should have slowed to anticipate conflict with other road users. You would slow in a car. But cyclists, with their desire to keep up momentum, don't want to slow.
However, it is the driver of the car that makes the worst DRIVING mistake, either ignoring the cyclists, assuming they were definitely turning, or perhaps not even seeing them.
The cyclists however make the bigger mistake of believing that the adherence to the Highway Code/Driving rules is all that they need to ensure their own safety against fekwit drivers. As my Mum used to say to my Dad.... "I'm going to put 'but I had right of way' on your gravestone"....
The cyclists approached a complicated junction with too much speed thus giving themselves no alternative but conflict with the badly driven car. If this happened in a car you'd stamp on the brakes and stop. You cant do that on a bike (nor a motorbike).
Self preservation isn't about being the one that followed all the correct rules and regulations. I see way too many people stepping out on a road crossing without checking that drivers are actually stopping, for instance.
However, it is the driver of the car that makes the worst DRIVING mistake, either ignoring the cyclists, assuming they were definitely turning, or perhaps not even seeing them.
The cyclists however make the bigger mistake of believing that the adherence to the Highway Code/Driving rules is all that they need to ensure their own safety against fekwit drivers. As my Mum used to say to my Dad.... "I'm going to put 'but I had right of way' on your gravestone"....
The cyclists approached a complicated junction with too much speed thus giving themselves no alternative but conflict with the badly driven car. If this happened in a car you'd stamp on the brakes and stop. You cant do that on a bike (nor a motorbike).
Self preservation isn't about being the one that followed all the correct rules and regulations. I see way too many people stepping out on a road crossing without checking that drivers are actually stopping, for instance.
grimmac said:
Equally the car should not emerge until it is clear, regardless of other road users signals, had it been a car or van coming up the road running a left indicator would they have still pulled out??
You're forgetting a hand signal carries more weight than an indicator, but if it was such an advance clear use of indicator, surely it's more likely they'd pull out than if the car/van hadn't used it 
Agree with the HC code link too. Dont signal until after a sideroad you dont want to use
and doent signal if its likely to mislead
Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 8th July 10:50
I'm surprised there's so much fuss over this. Surely we've all waited at a T junction and had a car approach with it's left indicator on, which has been left on inadvertently by the driver?
If it's happened to me once every two years that'll be nigh on 20 times.
We still don't pull out unless we're convinced the indicator is genuine, do we, unless we want to be T-boned?
If it's happened to me once every two years that'll be nigh on 20 times.
We still don't pull out unless we're convinced the indicator is genuine, do we, unless we want to be T-boned?
Seems more worthy of muttering "twerp" under your breath and then just carrying on to me, certainly not uploading to YouTube complete with plate. Driver probably won't give it a second thought, may at best think that was close(ish) and remember it for a few minutes/hours, cyclists could think about their hand signals and how they could have confused the driver, everyone then just gets on with it and hopefully make a better go of it next time around.
Car driver/cyclist.
Car driver/cyclist.
Moulder said:
Seems more worthy of muttering "twerp" under your breath and then just carrying on to me, certainly not uploading to YouTube complete with plate. Driver probably won't give it a second thought, may at best think that was close(ish) and remember it for a few minutes/hours, cyclists could think about their hand signals and how they could have confused the driver, everyone then just gets on with it and hopefully make a better go of it next time around.
Car driver/cyclist.
Have a look at the guy's youtube channel. He's a total deputy pedals policing the road Car driver/cyclist.
I take absolutely no pleasure in posting this, but it's a sadly recurring theme with cyclist accidents in London.
A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
walm said:
Looks like us cyclists are going to have to dial back the "VED doesn't pay for roads rhetoric" - I look forward to even more hate. 
VED is going to the highways agency, so motorways and major A roads only. I'm going to start with "your road tax doesn't pay for THIS road, f
k back off to the ones you do pay for" in future. /sI might have a suggestion to help this. A bit more possible than redesigned trucks and drivers with compound eyes.
Many moons ago drivers of large vehicles often had a 'mate' in the cab. They would help with manoeuvres and general stuff. I think only 'abnormal loads' have this sort of luxury now.
It would be an idea for tippers and similar (in central London only) to have to have a driver and an assistant. The assistant could take care of the nearside at all times and obviously give some choice advice to anyone who thought is was a good idea to come up the inside of a turning truck. The assistant could be a labourer off the site, for instance, and would only be needed for a short time.
Of course it would add to costs and these could be borne by the developer or any other entity looking for the good PR of sponsoring the prevention of people getting killed.
Many moons ago drivers of large vehicles often had a 'mate' in the cab. They would help with manoeuvres and general stuff. I think only 'abnormal loads' have this sort of luxury now.
It would be an idea for tippers and similar (in central London only) to have to have a driver and an assistant. The assistant could take care of the nearside at all times and obviously give some choice advice to anyone who thought is was a good idea to come up the inside of a turning truck. The assistant could be a labourer off the site, for instance, and would only be needed for a short time.
Of course it would add to costs and these could be borne by the developer or any other entity looking for the good PR of sponsoring the prevention of people getting killed.
Mr Will said:
walm said:
Looks like us cyclists are going to have to dial back the "VED doesn't pay for roads rhetoric" - I look forward to even more hate.
VED is going to the highways agency, so motorways and major A roads only. I'm going to start with "your road tax doesn't pay for THIS road, fk back off to the ones you do pay for" in future. /sEdited by saaby93 on Tuesday 14th July 12:16
Dave200 said:
I take absolutely no pleasure in posting this, but it's a sadly recurring theme with cyclist accidents in London.
A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
Sad A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
How to help bring on behaviour like the quiet cyclist posted earlier who holds position in traffic rather than trying to get ahead of it?
Cyclists signalled too early.
Was a signal really necessary? If they were turning right at the rb then they would have been on the right hand side of the lane.
As posted by another PHer "Have a look at the guy's youtube channel. He's a total deputy pedals policing the road" As he professes to be an instructor I guess we can look forward to more bad cyclists on the roads. As previous posts have said the father cannot accept he has done anything wrong.
Was a signal really necessary? If they were turning right at the rb then they would have been on the right hand side of the lane.
As posted by another PHer "Have a look at the guy's youtube channel. He's a total deputy pedals policing the road" As he professes to be an instructor I guess we can look forward to more bad cyclists on the roads. As previous posts have said the father cannot accept he has done anything wrong.
saaby93 said:
It's changing its name from VED to roads funds licence allegedly
Good god, I sincerely hope not. The Hard of Understanding already struggle, despite road tax being terminated in 1937, and still see it as justification for bad driving. If they ever do bring in a 'road fund licence' I think cyclists may well as give up, despite the fact there will be tax free cars on the road.Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 14th July 12:16
saaby93 said:
Dave200 said:
I take absolutely no pleasure in posting this, but it's a sadly recurring theme with cyclist accidents in London.
A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
Sad A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
How to help bring on behaviour like the quiet cyclist posted earlier who holds position in traffic rather than trying to get ahead of it?
There's something terribly wrong when a mistake like this can so easily lead to someone's death.
The only solution I can see is proper protected segregated infrastructure, especially at junctions.
Dick Turpin said:
A bit more information. http://road.cc/content/news/157528-cyclist-s-death...
There's something terribly wrong when a mistake like this can so easily lead to someone's death.
The only solution I can see is proper protected segregated infrastructure, especially at junctions.
I agree.There's something terribly wrong when a mistake like this can so easily lead to someone's death.
The only solution I can see is proper protected segregated infrastructure, especially at junctions.
Dick Turpin said:
saaby93 said:
Dave200 said:
I take absolutely no pleasure in posting this, but it's a sadly recurring theme with cyclist accidents in London.
A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
Sad A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
How to help bring on behaviour like the quiet cyclist posted earlier who holds position in traffic rather than trying to get ahead of it?
There's something terribly wrong when a mistake like this can so easily lead to someone's death.
The only solution I can see is proper protected segregated infrastructure, especially at junctions.
The bottom line is that we cannot completely segregate traffic, and thus these situations will always happen. We need to better educate cyclists, and improve the basic skill levels.
Dick Turpin said:
saaby93 said:
Dave200 said:
I take absolutely no pleasure in posting this, but it's a sadly recurring theme with cyclist accidents in London.
A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
Sad A "lapse of concentration" saw her pulling up the left-hand side of a lorry that was indicating and turning left. Tragic, and just so avoidable...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-fede...
How to help bring on behaviour like the quiet cyclist posted earlier who holds position in traffic rather than trying to get ahead of it?
There's something terribly wrong when a mistake like this can so easily lead to someone's death.
The only solution I can see is proper protected segregated infrastructure, especially at junctions.
Certain types of people are drawn to certain types of jobs. I'm guessing that someone that works in fashion has no understanding of big machines like tippers, everything is likely to be cuddly and lovely for them, not vehicles that are very heavy where the driver cannot see right the way around it. Quite how this person and others have cycled around London and seen how they have to take corners without thinking that they need to give them a wide berth is beyond me.
Dave200 said:
A lovely idea, and absolutely the long-term way forward, but what do you propose we do in the interim decade while it's debated, funded, planned and built?
The bottom line is that we cannot completely segregate traffic, and thus these situations will always happen. We need to better educate cyclists, and improve the basic skill levels.
And better educate drivers too.The bottom line is that we cannot completely segregate traffic, and thus these situations will always happen. We need to better educate cyclists, and improve the basic skill levels.
Willy Nilly said:
People make mistakes all of the time that lead to themselves or someone else getting hurt. The thing is that lorries haven't suddenly appeared on road in London or anywhere else, nor have they got bigger over night, nor have they suddenly been squashing people that run up their left side.
Certain types of people are drawn to certain types of jobs. I'm guessing that someone that works in fashion has no understanding of big machines like tippers, everything is likely to be cuddly and lovely for them, not vehicles that are very heavy where the driver cannot see right the way around it. Quite how this person and others have cycled around London and seen how they have to take corners without thinking that they need to give them a wide berth is beyond me.
Is it a London issue? In other places would most cyclists hold station in traffic rather than creeping up alongside it? We've seen videos where people dont realise that going up the inside of a truck signalling left is not a good ideaCertain types of people are drawn to certain types of jobs. I'm guessing that someone that works in fashion has no understanding of big machines like tippers, everything is likely to be cuddly and lovely for them, not vehicles that are very heavy where the driver cannot see right the way around it. Quite how this person and others have cycled around London and seen how they have to take corners without thinking that they need to give them a wide berth is beyond me.
Do advance stop lines take some of the blame? The idea was to stop traffic behind cyclists but some cyclists seem to use these as a reason to run past the inside (or outside) of traffic, only to find theyre being overtaken later.
Are there more of these in London than elsewhere?
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