Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
Cyclists will always die in London because they rarely think about other vehicles on the road and what they might do.
I have to ride via Westminster each morning and the attitude of cyclists is terrible - no respect for anyone on the road other than other cyclists.
Usually, Im sat at the lights waiting to go 1, 2, 3 cyclists squeeze themselves in front of me - light goes green & they all try to get away very slowly - use some common sense and think that a motorbike can pull away a lot quicker - no effort to move out of the way, just sit in front of me with your bum cheeks shining through your shorts...
No amount of ranting on here will change anything though & cyclists will keep dieing because they always think they are in the right.
Taxing bikes wont make a difference, it'll only make cyclists think they have even more right to ignore everything.
I have to ride via Westminster each morning and the attitude of cyclists is terrible - no respect for anyone on the road other than other cyclists.
Usually, Im sat at the lights waiting to go 1, 2, 3 cyclists squeeze themselves in front of me - light goes green & they all try to get away very slowly - use some common sense and think that a motorbike can pull away a lot quicker - no effort to move out of the way, just sit in front of me with your bum cheeks shining through your shorts...
No amount of ranting on here will change anything though & cyclists will keep dieing because they always think they are in the right.
Taxing bikes wont make a difference, it'll only make cyclists think they have even more right to ignore everything.
CorvetteConvert said:
Cyclists should be insured by law, just as a 25 mph moped has to be. Helmets compulsory also.
Then (and i know this will annoy some) we can start looking at the ludicrously over-used roadwork network in London and other big cities. IE penalties for using cars using the busiest roads in peak times and cash incentives for people using bicycles and motorcycles and for travelling outside of peak times.
The congestion charge helps a tad, but far too many exclusions apply and i could tell last week for example that London and Birmingham are chronically over-vehicled in peak hours. We sat for hours getting nowhere fast and we will be staying away or going by train in future. That was a landmark week for me. Never known traffic like it.
But the problem of too many of us wanting the same bit of road is getting worse by the year, fuelled by population explosion including another 650,000 people coming to the UK last year alone and people living longer.
Something has to be done and it will annoy many but it has to change or the country will just come to a stand one day effectively.
And yet regarding cyclists you actually want to reduce them, put more cars on the road and increase the danger to cyclists, because this is what has been *proven* to happen when any of these methods have been imposed (though nobody has made insurance/registration work). Then (and i know this will annoy some) we can start looking at the ludicrously over-used roadwork network in London and other big cities. IE penalties for using cars using the busiest roads in peak times and cash incentives for people using bicycles and motorcycles and for travelling outside of peak times.
The congestion charge helps a tad, but far too many exclusions apply and i could tell last week for example that London and Birmingham are chronically over-vehicled in peak hours. We sat for hours getting nowhere fast and we will be staying away or going by train in future. That was a landmark week for me. Never known traffic like it.
But the problem of too many of us wanting the same bit of road is getting worse by the year, fuelled by population explosion including another 650,000 people coming to the UK last year alone and people living longer.
Something has to be done and it will annoy many but it has to change or the country will just come to a stand one day effectively.
jbsportstech said:
The videos I see from cyclist cams there seems to be alot of cyclist who are borderline suicidal. They seem to steam into every situation with little regard for their own safety and then when a vehicle is in their path do little or nothing to avoid a collision. I mean every time a car in front of me does something silly in front of me I could keep my foot to floor and hope for the best or I could hang back manage my own risk.
I personally think this is a good example of what you are talking about.This cycling instructor is reading the road ahead and knows what the van ahead is going to do and even appears to slow to let him the van move over. When the van moves over he makes a point of putting himself in a bad situation.
What he thinks he is achieving, I don't know. If a child jumped out in front of him would he just plough into it because the child shouldn't be in the cycle lane?
Why can't he just except there will be obstacles ?
http://youtu.be/ucQYRBgmZsk
Ghibli said:
I personally think this is a good example of what you are talking about.
This cycling instructor is reading the road ahead and knows what the van ahead is going to do and even appears to slow to let him the van move over. When the van moves over he makes a point of putting himself in a bad situation.
What he thinks he is achieving, I don't know. If a child jumped out in front of him would he just plough into it because the child shouldn't be in the cycle lane?
Why can't he just except there will be obstacles ?
http://youtu.be/ucQYRBgmZsk
Weird . Is e a cycling instructor or not?This cycling instructor is reading the road ahead and knows what the van ahead is going to do and even appears to slow to let him the van move over. When the van moves over he makes a point of putting himself in a bad situation.
What he thinks he is achieving, I don't know. If a child jumped out in front of him would he just plough into it because the child shouldn't be in the cycle lane?
Why can't he just except there will be obstacles ?
http://youtu.be/ucQYRBgmZsk
What about this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9pU_vvwl3Y
The weaving about through traffic?
I keep having to say that my views are from the perspective of someone who cycles a lot in Central London, but I rarely find myself coming down on the side of cyclists.
Another shining example of cyclists' failings presented itself today. A very busy arterial route roundabout near me that the council have spent months redesigning and rebuilding to include light control and segregated cycle lanes. Standing watching for 5min this morning suggests that around half of the cyclists using the roundabout made no attempt to use the segregated lanes, and instead continued to mix with heavy traffic (now in smaller lanes), including lorries and buses.
Segregation is a nice, utopian kind of idea, but it doesn't work when cyclists aren't educated and incentivised to use it properly. We need to start somewhere.
Another shining example of cyclists' failings presented itself today. A very busy arterial route roundabout near me that the council have spent months redesigning and rebuilding to include light control and segregated cycle lanes. Standing watching for 5min this morning suggests that around half of the cyclists using the roundabout made no attempt to use the segregated lanes, and instead continued to mix with heavy traffic (now in smaller lanes), including lorries and buses.
Segregation is a nice, utopian kind of idea, but it doesn't work when cyclists aren't educated and incentivised to use it properly. We need to start somewhere.
Dave200 said:
Segregation is a nice, utopian kind of idea, but it doesn't work when cyclists aren't educated and incentivised to use it properly. We need to start somewhere.
Right, well I say because we don't have segregation, you tend to be left with exactly the kind of cyclist you describe and see. The normal, cautious types (the masses, even?) have been completely put off cycling by this constant message that cycling is dangerous.Make cycling safe and pleasant and you'll see more normal, non aggressive types of people out on bikes. While it remains something of a battleground those people will remain firmly in their cars.
saaby93 said:
Weird . Is e a cycling instructor or not?
Yes he is, at least that's what I found.I will not name or shame him but.......
He is the cereal catcher, his name is on news articles relating to the cereal incident, his location is on his YT account. A little bit of searching and I came up with a cycling instructor with that name in that area.
He also tells people on his message boards that he is.
I'm not sure if this ^ counts as naming and shaming. I'm happy for this post to be deleted if it is.
I personally don't want to see a witch hunt against him but I do think he is wrong in many cases and has a tendency to create problems and try to make himself out as some sort of hero. Let's hope he is not teaching kids to do the same.
heebeegeetee said:
Dave200 said:
Segregation is a nice, utopian kind of idea, but it doesn't work when cyclists aren't educated and incentivised to use it properly. We need to start somewhere.
Right, well I say because we don't have segregation, you tend to be left with exactly the kind of cyclist you describe and see. The normal, cautious types (the masses, even?) have been completely put off cycling by this constant message that cycling is dangerous.Make cycling safe and pleasant and you'll see more normal, non aggressive types of people out on bikes. While it remains something of a battleground those people will remain firmly in their cars.
You have two extremes, largely dictated by experience, in the world of poor cycling (with a spectrum in-between):
1) Aggressive, careless cyclists whose aim is to progress at all costs
2) Passive, inattentive/neglectful cyclists who make poor decisions through lack of experience/education
Both are undoubtedly a significant risk, and one that can only be fixed through education and (dis)incentivisation.
Sea Demon said:
Cyclists will always die in London because they rarely think about other vehicles on the road and what they might do.
I have to ride via Westminster each morning and the attitude of cyclists is terrible - no respect for anyone on the road other than other cyclists.
Usually, Im sat at the lights waiting to go 1, 2, 3 cyclists squeeze themselves in front of me - light goes green & they all try to get away very slowly - use some common sense and think that a motorbike can pull away a lot quicker - no effort to move out of the way, just sit in front of me with your bum cheeks shining through your shorts...
No amount of ranting on here will change anything though & cyclists will keep dieing because they always think they are in the right.
Taxing bikes wont make a difference, it'll only make cyclists think they have even more right to ignore everything.
And yet the data shows the driver is at sole fault in the majority of cyclist casualties, so it's generally not the cyclist's behaviour that is causing their deaths.I have to ride via Westminster each morning and the attitude of cyclists is terrible - no respect for anyone on the road other than other cyclists.
Usually, Im sat at the lights waiting to go 1, 2, 3 cyclists squeeze themselves in front of me - light goes green & they all try to get away very slowly - use some common sense and think that a motorbike can pull away a lot quicker - no effort to move out of the way, just sit in front of me with your bum cheeks shining through your shorts...
No amount of ranting on here will change anything though & cyclists will keep dieing because they always think they are in the right.
Taxing bikes wont make a difference, it'll only make cyclists think they have even more right to ignore everything.
A tiny proportion of accidents involving cyclists are caused by riders jumping red lights or stop signs, or failing to wear high-visibility clothing and use lights, a government-commissioned study has discovered
Another cyclist who thinks he's above the law and knows best.
https://youtu.be/HrL2pWScY2s
He asks why should cyclists dismount as they are allowed to use the road. It's the same as "road closed" "diversion" signs apply to all other vehicles. Most motorists know they should obey signs.
https://youtu.be/HrL2pWScY2s
He asks why should cyclists dismount as they are allowed to use the road. It's the same as "road closed" "diversion" signs apply to all other vehicles. Most motorists know they should obey signs.
Dick Turpin said:
And yet the data shows the driver is at sole fault in the majority of cyclist casualties, so it's generally not the cyclist's behaviour that is causing their deaths.
A tiny proportion of accidents involving cyclists are caused by riders jumping red lights or stop signs, or failing to wear high-visibility clothing and use lights, a government-commissioned study has discovered
I'm sure that was discussed earlier. It's a newspaper article from 2009 on a report about a report. There's quite a lot more in the real report than the headline would imply.A tiny proportion of accidents involving cyclists are caused by riders jumping red lights or stop signs, or failing to wear high-visibility clothing and use lights, a government-commissioned study has discovered
If we continue to say it's one or the other we're not going to help resolve the issues. It's about the interaction of all road users how do they work to try to share the same road space (nicely) with each other
Jagmanv12 said:
Another cyclist who thinks he's above the law and knows best.
https://youtu.be/HrL2pWScY2s
He asks why should cyclists dismount as they are allowed to use the road. It's the same as "road closed" "diversion" signs apply to all other vehicles. Most motorists know they should obey signs.
What law would that be then? https://youtu.be/HrL2pWScY2s
He asks why should cyclists dismount as they are allowed to use the road. It's the same as "road closed" "diversion" signs apply to all other vehicles. Most motorists know they should obey signs.
Why on earth should a cyclist be ordered to dismount, just because the cycle lane is blocked?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I have never seen anyone take any notice of a cyclist dismount sign. You get them at the end of cycle lanes. Why would anyone bother?He's realised it's a stupid sign, before someone gets uppity about hundreds of cyclists not dismounting. You can see everyone is ignoring it and getting on with using the road as a mixed space, without any worry.
saaby93 said:
'm sure that was discussed earlier. It's a newspaper article from 2009 on a report about a report. There's quite a lot more in the real report than the headline would imply.
If we continue to say it's one or the other we're not going to help resolve the issues. It's about the interaction of all road users how do they work to try to share the same road space (nicely) with each other
Why do you repeat this argument ad nauseam to people suggesting it ISN'T always the cyclists' fault but completely ignore those who happily post their anecdotal evidence and conclude it is "suicidal cyclists" who are the problem?If we continue to say it's one or the other we're not going to help resolve the issues. It's about the interaction of all road users how do they work to try to share the same road space (nicely) with each other
You want to appear even-handed but I don't think you are!
saaby93 said:
Dick Turpin said:
And yet the data shows the driver is at sole fault in the majority of cyclist casualties, so it's generally not the cyclist's behaviour that is causing their deaths.
A tiny proportion of accidents involving cyclists are caused by riders jumping red lights or stop signs, or failing to wear high-visibility clothing and use lights, a government-commissioned study has discovered
I'm sure that was discussed earlier. It's a newspaper article from 2009 on a report about a report. There's quite a lot more in the real report than the headline would imply.A tiny proportion of accidents involving cyclists are caused by riders jumping red lights or stop signs, or failing to wear high-visibility clothing and use lights, a government-commissioned study has discovered
If we continue to say it's one or the other we're not going to help resolve the issues. It's about the interaction of all road users how do they work to try to share the same road space (nicely) with each other
walm said:
Why do you repeat this argument ad nauseam to people suggesting it ISN'T always the cyclists' fault but completely ignore those who happily post their anecdotal evidence and conclude it is "suicidal cyclists" who are the problem?
You want to appear even-handed but I don't think you are!
I hope my post just above this helped You want to appear even-handed but I don't think you are!
I'm trying to uncover what's leading to whatever it is happening. I'm not trying to appear to be anything. It's for you to judge what I appear to be.
The post about some suicidal cyclists was just one point of view and from the youtube videos by cyclists and motorists, as a single user comment I thought it was worth waiting to see replies. There are of course many cyclists who arent. There are also a number of motorists who do crazy things and many who dont.
Within that mix there is the title of this thread.
I picked up on the post about the article on the report about a report, as I felt we should be more careful about quoting published reports and what they actually say.
Ok?
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