Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
Dick Turpin said:
Jagmanv12 said:
Another cyclist who thinks he's above the law and knows best.
https://youtu.be/HrL2pWScY2s
He asks why should cyclists dismount as they are allowed to use the road. It's the same as "road closed" "diversion" signs apply to all other vehicles. Most motorists know they should obey signs.
What law would that be then? https://youtu.be/HrL2pWScY2s
He asks why should cyclists dismount as they are allowed to use the road. It's the same as "road closed" "diversion" signs apply to all other vehicles. Most motorists know they should obey signs.
Why on earth should a cyclist be ordered to dismount, just because the cycle lane is blocked?
It turns out that the almighty "signing rules" (not the official name) specifically state that if the carriageway next to a cycle lane becomes narrower than a certain width you HAVE to put up such a sign.
The council box-ticker agreed with me that since cyclists often manage to cycle down very narrow single lane roads without incident such a sign is total b
ks - but that he wouldn't do anything about it, obviously.Frankly I was more upset about the poor grammar.
heebeegeetee said:
Probably not needed here. Unless anyone has seen otherwise, I dont think that's been the type of collision occuring in Londonwalm said:
Being a pedantic dick, I did once complain to the council about one of these signs.
It turns out that the almighty "signing rules" (not the official name) specifically state that if the carriageway next to a cycle lane becomes narrower than a certain width you HAVE to put up such a sign.
The council box-ticker agreed with me that since cyclists often manage to cycle down very narrow single lane roads without incident such a sign is total bks - but that he wouldn't do anything about it, obviously.
TBH, that sounds like total bullsIt turns out that the almighty "signing rules" (not the official name) specifically state that if the carriageway next to a cycle lane becomes narrower than a certain width you HAVE to put up such a sign.
The council box-ticker agreed with me that since cyclists often manage to cycle down very narrow single lane roads without incident such a sign is total b
ks - but that he wouldn't do anything about it, obviously.t from the council.saaby93 said:
heebeegeetee said:
Probably not needed here. Unless anyone has seen otherwise, I dont think that's been the type of collision occuring in LondonKillboy said:
Yes, but all the cyclist bashing is? Lol. Reading this thread, London is full of perfect lorry and car drivers while cyclists are all suicidal.
I've been reading this thread and most motorists say there are idiot drivers on the road. I can't say the same for the cyclists although there have been a few exceptions.It appears to me motorists are more willing to look at what the cause of this problem is.
Dick Turpin said:
walm said:
Being a pedantic dick, I did once complain to the council about one of these signs.
It turns out that the almighty "signing rules" (not the official name) specifically state that if the carriageway next to a cycle lane becomes narrower than a certain width you HAVE to put up such a sign.
The council box-ticker agreed with me that since cyclists often manage to cycle down very narrow single lane roads without incident such a sign is total bks - but that he wouldn't do anything about it, obviously.
TBH, that sounds like total bullsIt turns out that the almighty "signing rules" (not the official name) specifically state that if the carriageway next to a cycle lane becomes narrower than a certain width you HAVE to put up such a sign.
The council box-ticker agreed with me that since cyclists often manage to cycle down very narrow single lane roads without incident such a sign is total b
ks - but that he wouldn't do anything about it, obviously.t from the council.saaby93 said:
heebeegeetee said:
Probably not needed here. Unless anyone has seen otherwise, I dont think that's been the type of collision occuring in LondonGhibli said:
I've been reading this thread and most motorists say there are idiot drivers on the road. I can't say the same for the cyclists although there have been a few exceptions.
It appears to me motorists are more willing to look at what the cause of this problem is.
I have the opposite conclusion.It appears to me motorists are more willing to look at what the cause of this problem is.
The cyclists don't usually have to admit that many cyclists are muppets since an irate PH driver will have already posted a youtube clip with plenty of evidence.
The motorists are usually the ones who blame the cyclists, suggest insurance, registration, a formal test, compulsory helmets etc...
They are entrenched in the belief that the cyclists are the problem since that is what their personal experience has told them, rather than doing any actual research into the root cause.
CorvetteConvert said:
Cyclists should be insured by law, just as a 25 mph moped has to be. Helmets compulsory also.
Then (and i know this will annoy some) we can start looking at the ludicrously over-used roadwork network in London and other big cities. IE penalties for using cars using the busiest roads in peak times and cash incentives for people using bicycles and motorcycles and for travelling outside of peak times.
The congestion charge helps a tad, but far too many exclusions apply and i could tell last week for example that London and Birmingham are chronically over-vehicled in peak hours. We sat for hours getting nowhere fast and we will be staying away or going by train in future. That was a landmark week for me. Never known traffic like it.
But the problem of too many of us wanting the same bit of road is getting worse by the year, fuelled by population explosion including another 650,000 people coming to the UK last year alone and people living longer.
Something has to be done and it will annoy many but it has to change or the country will just come to a stand one day effectively.
Road pricing is the only way.Then (and i know this will annoy some) we can start looking at the ludicrously over-used roadwork network in London and other big cities. IE penalties for using cars using the busiest roads in peak times and cash incentives for people using bicycles and motorcycles and for travelling outside of peak times.
The congestion charge helps a tad, but far too many exclusions apply and i could tell last week for example that London and Birmingham are chronically over-vehicled in peak hours. We sat for hours getting nowhere fast and we will be staying away or going by train in future. That was a landmark week for me. Never known traffic like it.
But the problem of too many of us wanting the same bit of road is getting worse by the year, fuelled by population explosion including another 650,000 people coming to the UK last year alone and people living longer.
Something has to be done and it will annoy many but it has to change or the country will just come to a stand one day effectively.
I do not understand the vitriol against it. Want to drive across Bank Junction at 8:30am, that'll be £20 please.
Want to drive across Bank Junction at 4am - free.
oyster said:
Road pricing is the only way.
I do not understand the vitriol against it. Want to drive across Bank Junction at 8:30am, that'll be £20 please.
Want to drive across Bank Junction at 4am - free.
This needs to be combined with legislation to promote home / flexible working. Most people on x road at at y o'clock don't have a choice in the matter (changing jobs aside). This needs to change.I do not understand the vitriol against it. Want to drive across Bank Junction at 8:30am, that'll be £20 please.
Want to drive across Bank Junction at 4am - free.
walm said:
Ghibli said:
I've been reading this thread and most motorists say there are idiot drivers on the road. I can't say the same for the cyclists although there have been a few exceptions.
It appears to me motorists are more willing to look at what the cause of this problem is.
I have the opposite conclusion.It appears to me motorists are more willing to look at what the cause of this problem is.
The cyclists don't usually have to admit that many cyclists are muppets since an irate PH driver will have already posted a youtube clip with plenty of evidence.
The motorists are usually the ones who blame the cyclists, suggest insurance, registration, a formal test, compulsory helmets etc...
They are entrenched in the belief that the cyclists are the problem since that is what their personal experience has told them, rather than doing any actual research into the root cause.
As far as registration insurance etc, IMO it would be too hard to police. Although insurance would come in handy for pedestrians being hit.
PH drivers are also cyclists.
aclivity said:
Digby said:
Which still begs the question why you would travel up the inside of an HGV that has its indicator flashing.Why would you? Why would anyone? Yet it happens to me every single time I am in the city.
Most of the time, vehicles don't indicate until they are at the point of turning. Every day I have to watch out for idiots, everyday I see them failing to indicate until the turn.Its not like it is hard, just a few meters earlier.
Digby said:
And were I on a bike, I would be fully aware that this may happen at any moment.Many seem not to care.
let me point the bit out here:Aclivity said:
Digby said:
Which still begs the question why you would travel up the inside of an HGV that has its indicator flashing.Why would you? Why would anyone? Yet it happens to me every single time I am in the city.
Most of the time, vehicles don't indicate until they are at the point of turning. Every day I have to watch out for idiots, everyday I see them failing to indicate until the turn.Its not like it is hard, just a few meters earlier.
All I am saying is - use your indicators a but early.
Theres a historic issue there.
Many drivers will switch off their indicators and anything else while waiting at traffic lights
It stops the clicking noise and it saves the slight annoyance to everyone around of the blinking orange lights.
Everyones pulled up to the lights together so if there was any signaling beforehand, they'll have noticed it. Anyway some drivers may change their mind and decide to go another way.
Once the lights change to green they'll put their indicators on again, if they need to and move off.
That'll work ok for the quiet guy on a bike holding station in traffic
What it wont work for is the few cyclists intent on getting to the front, who may not know (or arent even bothered) which way the traffic is going.
Is that what's happening?
Many drivers will switch off their indicators and anything else while waiting at traffic lights
It stops the clicking noise and it saves the slight annoyance to everyone around of the blinking orange lights.
Everyones pulled up to the lights together so if there was any signaling beforehand, they'll have noticed it. Anyway some drivers may change their mind and decide to go another way.
Once the lights change to green they'll put their indicators on again, if they need to and move off.
That'll work ok for the quiet guy on a bike holding station in traffic
What it wont work for is the few cyclists intent on getting to the front, who may not know (or arent even bothered) which way the traffic is going.
Is that what's happening?
Edited by saaby93 on Thursday 16th July 11:11
saaby93 said:
Theres a historic issue there.
Many drivers will switch off their indicators and anything else while waiting at traffic lights
It stops the clicking noise and it saves the slight annoyance to everyone around of the blinking orange lights.
Everyones pulled up to the lights together so if there was any signaling beforehand, they'll have noticed it. Anyway some drivers may change their mind and decide to go another way.
Once the lights change to green they'll put their indicators on again, if they need to and move off.
That'll work ok for the quiet guy on a bike holding station in traffic
What it wont work for is the few cyclists intent on getting to the front, who may not knwo or arent even bothered which way the traffic is going.
Is that what's happening?
How does that work when there's a cycle lane and maybe an advanced stop box then saaby?Many drivers will switch off their indicators and anything else while waiting at traffic lights
It stops the clicking noise and it saves the slight annoyance to everyone around of the blinking orange lights.
Everyones pulled up to the lights together so if there was any signaling beforehand, they'll have noticed it. Anyway some drivers may change their mind and decide to go another way.
Once the lights change to green they'll put their indicators on again, if they need to and move off.
That'll work ok for the quiet guy on a bike holding station in traffic
What it wont work for is the few cyclists intent on getting to the front, who may not knwo or arent even bothered which way the traffic is going.
Is that what's happening?
saaby93 said:
Theres a historic issue there.
Many drivers will switch off their indicators and anything else while waiting at traffic lights
Well they are idiots then and not driving in accordance with the HC and would fail their driving test.Many drivers will switch off their indicators and anything else while waiting at traffic lights
But let's just blame the cyclists trying to get to the ASL via the cycle lane.
C
aclivity said:
What do you want me to do? Wait until ALL the cars have gone past? I just EXPECT drivers to indicate a teeny weeny bit earlier. Not like, say, the two cars at the lights this morning, who started indicating WHEN THE LIGHTS WENT GREEN. We were at those lights for what, about a minute? Does the nasty "click click" sound depress them?
All I am saying is - use your indicators a but early.
I agree with you; but I simply find it incredible that anyone can be killed by an HGV regardless of their road manners.All I am saying is - use your indicators a but early.
walm said:
saaby93 said:
Theres a historic issue there.
Many drivers will switch off their indicators and anything else while waiting at traffic lights
Well they are idiots then and not driving in accordance with the HC and would fail their driving test.Many drivers will switch off their indicators and anything else while waiting at traffic lights
But let's just blame the cyclists trying to get to the ASL via the cycle lane.
This lorry does a stupid overtake and doesn't appear to indicate left at the lights until the last minute.
The cyclists still go down the left despite being told not to go down there due to someone being killed there last week.
I can't see that anyone would defend the lorry driver or the cyclist in this situation.
http://youtu.be/vmAVycQX1lE
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