Another cyclist dies in London

[DonkeyApple]

saaby93 said:

A few people have raised concerns about Bank junction itself - whats wrong with it?

Nothing at all if people obey the law and use their eyes and brains. If anything it's complexity slows people down and makes them more aware but you will regularly see cars and bikes jumping lights and cyclists deliberately traveling up a vehicles' blind spot to make time. It's the City so you expect pedestrians to be in the road either because of a long lunch, they are talking on the phone or they are invincible super males of tremendous importance.

The near incidents that I have seen over the years generally entail a cyclist jumping the lights and a vehicle traveling a bit too fast. That sort of thing.

As junctions go I wouldn't rate it as dangerous. There is one round Aldgate that I think is lethal and the north side of Blackfriars was a shocker for years but Bank, while busy and with many exits and few markings it just still isn't a bad junction.

[danrst171]

23,000,000 people cycle in London per year. According to that article, 8 cyclists died in 2015.

[croyde]

DoubleD said:

croyde said:

According to that article the poor girl was just sat at the lights waiting to go whilst the idiot in the lorry was busy with his phone and didn't see her.

No amount of defensive riding is gonna save you from some of the brain dead fools that are allowed on the road. I say this as a driver.

It's wrong to say "poor girl" and "idiot driver" when no evidence has been found to prove that. I'm glad your not a judge!

I wish I was.

Anyone using a phone whilst driving should be shot. I've lost count of the amount of z that have nearly ploughed into me cos they are too busy staring at their phone.

In virtually all cases it was me that took avoiding action whilst the twunt remained oblivious.

[surveyor_101]

Unfortunately a lot of serious cyclist want all the respect without any responsibility.

I was driving in a country lane the other day used alof by emergency services to access the motorway and I came round a bend to find two geared up road bike users in the middle of the road two abreast.

I hung back tooted my horn to let them know I was there hoping they had a brain cell left and would allow me to pass. Surprise, surprise they didn't, straight opening up to national close on them passed but due to road with the second rider would of had less the 6 foot I would normally allow. Of course he gestured because I am clearly some unreasonable loon and should of stayed behind them for 2 miles at 15mph.

[Blakewater]

DonkeyApple said:

An interesting thought: in the City you now have a massive number of inexperienced cyclists utilising Boris Bikes from tourists, drunks, people who haven't ridden a bike in years etc etc. I think it is relatively fair to argue that of all the bike users in the City, this group is the least proficient at cycling.

As such, why does it appear that the majority of deaths are happening to those who own their own bicycles who would arguably be at the most proficient end of the spectrum? I find it interesting to ponder what it is that they are doing that appears on the surface to put the more at risk than a drunk tourist, lost, not very good at cycling and busy chatting to a mate?

Sure, there is an argument that it could all boil down to frequency of journeys but I wonder if it actually doesn't boil down to human failings to calculate risk with any true accuracy? For example, professional cyclists become distorted in their risk perception because of the number of times they have gotten away with extremely high risk manoeuvres such as passing to the left and riding in known blind spots and conversely, drivers apply risk metrics differently to a clearly incompetent, Boris Bike but have an expectation that a pro cyclist knows what they are doing?

There are very obviously incompetent, disrespectful and angry vehicle drivers navigating around the City and there are very clearly a large number of white, male, middle class cyclists with serious problems in their private lives that seek an outlet by deliberately navigating themselves into confrontations with other road users but for the most part I don't get the feeling that it is these militant cyclists who are dying or the incompetent drivers who are crashing, for the most part it does seem to be a depressing meeting of two normal people and so I do wonder if bad risk perception is playing some kind of pivotal role?

It's partly failing to see the dangers, partly getting away with taking risks so often they think less and less of the dangers they're putting themselves in, partly blaming other people when things go wrong. Motorists are the same. How often do people get away with taking bends too fast, not looking properly and junctions and carrying out risky overtakes? The difference with cars is that they have the technology to get their drivers out of many tricky situations and make up for their failings and when the drivers do crash the cars provide a lot of protection.

[Vipers]

danrst171 said:

23,000,000 people cycle in London per year. According to that article, 8 cyclists died in 2015.

So mean 23 million journeys, not 23 million cyclists

[walm]

[quote=surveyor_101 Surprise, surprise they didn't, straight opening up to national close on them passed but due to road with the second rider would of had less the 6 foot I would normally allow. Of course he gestured because I am clearly some unreasonable loon and should of stayed behind them for 2 miles at 15mph.
[/quote]

If it was safe to drop to single file and let you past then of course they should have but given they didn't I am really pleased that you thought "sod their safety I'll go past anyway".

When a caravanist is refusing to pull over despite having a tail of say 10 cars behind him, I don't just sit patiently behind him waiting for a safe bit of road - I just go for a dangerous overtake and pray no one is coming the other way. That's proper driving. Inconvenience trumps safety every time and two wrongs DO make a right.

I'm being facetious and 6 foot does sound like an overly generous gap to give so I am sure you didn't really endanger them at all - but it still amazes me that people somehow think that being held up by bad cycling/driving means you can be a bad driver yourself!

[anonymous-user]

hornetrider said:

And another

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2959902/Wo...

|

Alan Warwick, 61, from Rayleigh in Essex, pleaded guilty at Southwark Crown Court to causing death by careless and inconsiderate driving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-356149...

[saaby93]

djstevec said:

Alan Warwick, 61, from Rayleigh in Essex, pleaded guilty at Southwark Crown Court to causing death by careless and inconsiderate driving.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-356149...

Very short article there from the Beeb.
Just found it on the fail too

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3455040/Lo...

We'll have to wait for sentencing to find out how careless

Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 20th February 10:33

[Digby]

Just wanted to say..

If you are one of the brain-dead SUICIDAL idiots who attempts to ride between my vehicle and the odd filtering bus at this location, you WILL end up a statistic.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5102644,-0.11840...

There isn't a gap. Please stop trying to make one.

(Swiftly followed by at least another dozen or so riders who were obviously bored of life)

Edited by Digby on Tuesday 23 February 23:57

[CoolHands]

But why not drive more to the left then, ie make it too narrow to prevent them passing or at least force them to pass on the offside.

[Digby]

Sorry, more to the left of what? I'm talking of an HGV and a bus being side by side. Dropping the average cycle in to that gap leaves a few inches at best for movement. Why would you even bother? Can a rider tell me why, seriously?

As for blocking them, the mirror often puts a stop to that. Not that it sticks out that far, but the gap I have to leave before knocking it off is enough for many riders to have a go.

Edited by Digby on Tuesday 23 February 23:56

[Moominator]

I'm a cyclist and I even I dispair at what alot of them do. I always go up and over/on the outside when filtering. Or wait. Plenty see it as impertitive/their right to filter on the inside or go for all gaps.

Saying all this whilst i was living in London I once had a bus overtake then turn left on me. If I hadnt gone onto the pavement I'd have been underneath.

[Type R Tom]

Most of the comments regarding cyclists filtering can equally be aimed at motor cyclists in London who are equally impatient, blind to everything else than progressing as quickly as possible and get extremely angry if you deemed to have prevented their progression or in their mind put them in danger.

[ZX10R NIN]

Partly right but most motorcyclists filter to the right of vehicles not the left, not that doesn't stop us getting wiped out but we don't tend to end up underneath truck/buses.

Also I think cyclists are becoming more aware this isn't the smart thing to do as there are just as many tipper trucks in London as ever & less deaths so I think the message is getting through.

As a side bar I have noticed lorries/vans/buses do seem to pull over to the left more which obviously leaves less chance of an incident plus leaves more room on the right for me.

[Type R Tom]

ZX10R NIN said:

Partly right but most motorcyclists filter to the right of vehicles not the left, not that doesn't stop us getting wiped out but we don't tend to end up underneath truck/buses.

Also I think cyclists are becoming more aware this isn't the smart thing to do as there are just as many tipper trucks in London as ever & less deaths so I think the message is getting through.

As a side bar I have noticed lorries/vans/buses do seem to pull over to the left more which obviously leaves less chance of an incident plus leaves more room on the right for me.

Depends on the location but I generally find that they are as much on your left as they are on the right, especially on dual carriageways filtering between lanes or where they can use bus lanes before rejoining the "normal" traffic. Generally if you are looking for cyclists you're looking on your left, for motorcyclists your left and right.

[okgo]

Digby said:

Just wanted to say..

If you are one of the brain-dead SUICIDAL idiots who attempts to ride between my vehicle and the odd filtering bus at this location, you WILL end up a statistic.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5102644,-0.11840...

There isn't a gap. Please stop trying to make one.

(Swiftly followed by at least another dozen or so riders who were obviously bored of life)

Edited by Digby on Tuesday 23 February 23:57

I filter through there all the time, obviously occasionally there will be some brain dead low IQ monkey driving a lorry/bus that wants to make life difficult for everyone on purpose, perhaps in protest to those enjoying being outside on their way to a far better job than your own, but that's life isn't it.

Silly blanket statements are silly statements aren't they, generally there is a gap and its totally fine to filter through, if they didn't, you would be stuck at that junction FAR longer than you already are. That said, it is a poor design, generally there are not many lorries going over there during rush hour, but they should probably look to make some changes to allow more space - but I don't think I've ever seen any accident there of note.

[AH33]

Digby said:

Sorry, more to the left of what? I'm talking of an HGV and a bus being side by side. Dropping the average cycle in to that gap leaves a few inches at best for movement. Why would you even bother? Can a rider tell me why, seriously?

My guess would be "I've sacrificed my comfort and dignity to ride my pushbike on the road, how dare you hold me up - even for a second"

[saaby93]

okgo said:

I filter through there all the time, obviously occasionally there will be some brain dead low IQ monkey driving a lorry/bus

that works both ways

okgo said:

Silly blanket statements are silly statements aren't they,

okgo said:

generally there is a gap and its totally fine to filter through

We've seen before the trouble with that is some allegedly professional cyclists do that and look to be ok. Those who dont quite know what theyre doing, see that its ok, try the same and it may not be
Surely its best to set an example by holding back

[anonymous-user]

AH33 said:

My guess would be "I've sacrificed my comfort and dignity to ride my pushbike on the road, how dare you hold me up - even for a second"

Your guess would be wrong. It's usually, I'm in a car/van/truck...how dare a cyclist overtake me.

The IQ of the average UK driver is close to mentally inadequate to be honest.