Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Here's what this threads about 
Jury clears driver from October 2014 18 months ago - possibly for reasons in the item
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-359356...
Would have been in his mirrors for 3-5 seconds someone alleged
Anyone work out the location on googlemaps?
Jury clears driver from October 2014 18 months ago - possibly for reasons in the item
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-359356...
Would have been in his mirrors for 3-5 seconds someone alleged
beeb said:
Vincent Doyle, 45, failed to spot the German postgraduate in the cycle lane, despite overtaking her 200 metres before the junction, where he waited for 23 seconds at a red light.
Had his mirrors been correctly positioned, he would have had her in his sights for three to five seconds before his wheels clipped hers, sending her underneath the vehicle, the court heard.
Mr Doyle said he always made safety checks and had looked in his mirrors "five or six times" before the green light.
He told jurors that he never saw Mrs Gehlau waving her arms or heard her shouting before she fell under the lorry. He felt a "bump" and looked in his mirror to see her head sticking out, he said.
Mr Doyle described how he held her hand and pleaded with her to "hold on".
"I was taking her pulse, chatting to her all the time. I was holding her hand telling her 'Please hang on'. We were chatting away. And then she died. She died just as the ambulance got there."
On how the accident had affected him, he said: "I had a nervous breakdown last year. I was in psychiatric hospital for eight months."
Not much about what to doHad his mirrors been correctly positioned, he would have had her in his sights for three to five seconds before his wheels clipped hers, sending her underneath the vehicle, the court heard.
Mr Doyle said he always made safety checks and had looked in his mirrors "five or six times" before the green light.
He told jurors that he never saw Mrs Gehlau waving her arms or heard her shouting before she fell under the lorry. He felt a "bump" and looked in his mirror to see her head sticking out, he said.
Mr Doyle described how he held her hand and pleaded with her to "hold on".
"I was taking her pulse, chatting to her all the time. I was holding her hand telling her 'Please hang on'. We were chatting away. And then she died. She died just as the ambulance got there."
On how the accident had affected him, he said: "I had a nervous breakdown last year. I was in psychiatric hospital for eight months."
Anyone work out the location on googlemaps?
saaby93 said:
untakenname said:
The previous articles before the judgement were a lot more damning, he lied saying he hadn't stopped at the lights only changing his story when cctv showed he was stationary for nearly half a minute, didn't bother/know how to use the trixie mirror on the lights and then ontop of that started insulting the girl as she lay dying!
I wonder if he is the same Vincent Doyle that did this?
"Danny" Reidar Farr, killed October 1, 1999, junction of Westbourne Grove and Hereford Road, by a left turning skip lorry, driven by Vincent Doyle, operated by PowerDay. Despite witness evidence that driver failed to signal, court acquitted driver.
If so then the fact that the defence stated to the jury that he had an exemplary driving record for twenty years is unacceptable even if it's technically correct.
unless you're about to set up your own court I wonder if he is the same Vincent Doyle that did this?
"Danny" Reidar Farr, killed October 1, 1999, junction of Westbourne Grove and Hereford Road, by a left turning skip lorry, driven by Vincent Doyle, operated by PowerDay. Despite witness evidence that driver failed to signal, court acquitted driver.
If so then the fact that the defence stated to the jury that he had an exemplary driving record for twenty years is unacceptable even if it's technically correct.
It's technically correct and legally correct that the driver was acquitted and that he has an exemplary driving record
Your 'did this' goes against what the court said 'involved in this' maybe
Jeez can we get the simple things right if we're going to progress this
JuniorD said:
Wow, if it's the same guy. Twice in one lifetime is very alarming.
I don't know what the 'wow' thing is that's creeping into PH postsat least you didnt say 'Wow but Wow'
It obviously has been alarming for the guy as he's had to spend 8 months in psychiatric care
How would any of us fare if it happened even just once to us let alone twice
Spare a thought for those no longer with us in these collisions too.
The trouble with a court case it doesnt seem to go into the layout or other issues that might be improved, only about what would an ordinary Joe have done given those circumstances
Edited by saaby93 on Friday 1st April 12:11
saaby93 said:
JuniorD said:
Wow, if it's the same guy. Twice in one lifetime is very alarming.
I don't know what the 'wow' thing is that's creeping into PH postsat least you didnt say 'Wow but Wow'
It obviously has been alarming for the guy as he's had to spend 8 months in psychiatric care
How would any of us fare if it happened even just once to us let alone twice
saaby93 said:
saaby93 said:
Here's what this threads about
Jury clears driver from October 2014 18 months ago - possibly for reasons in the item
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-359356...
Would have been in his mirrors for 3-5 seconds someone alleged
Anyone work out the location on googlemaps?
Jury clears driver from October 2014 18 months ago - possibly for reasons in the item
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-359356...
Would have been in his mirrors for 3-5 seconds someone alleged
beeb said:
Vincent Doyle, 45, failed to spot the German postgraduate in the cycle lane, despite overtaking her 200 metres before the junction, where he waited for 23 seconds at a red light.
Had his mirrors been correctly positioned, he would have had her in his sights for three to five seconds before his wheels clipped hers, sending her underneath the vehicle, the court heard.
Mr Doyle said he always made safety checks and had looked in his mirrors "five or six times" before the green light.
He told jurors that he never saw Mrs Gehlau waving her arms or heard her shouting before she fell under the lorry. He felt a "bump" and looked in his mirror to see her head sticking out, he said.
Mr Doyle described how he held her hand and pleaded with her to "hold on".
"I was taking her pulse, chatting to her all the time. I was holding her hand telling her 'Please hang on'. We were chatting away. And then she died. She died just as the ambulance got there."
On how the accident had affected him, he said: "I had a nervous breakdown last year. I was in psychiatric hospital for eight months."
Not much about what to doHad his mirrors been correctly positioned, he would have had her in his sights for three to five seconds before his wheels clipped hers, sending her underneath the vehicle, the court heard.
Mr Doyle said he always made safety checks and had looked in his mirrors "five or six times" before the green light.
He told jurors that he never saw Mrs Gehlau waving her arms or heard her shouting before she fell under the lorry. He felt a "bump" and looked in his mirror to see her head sticking out, he said.
Mr Doyle described how he held her hand and pleaded with her to "hold on".
"I was taking her pulse, chatting to her all the time. I was holding her hand telling her 'Please hang on'. We were chatting away. And then she died. She died just as the ambulance got there."
On how the accident had affected him, he said: "I had a nervous breakdown last year. I was in psychiatric hospital for eight months."
Anyone work out the location on googlemaps?
saaby93 said:
untakenname said:
The previous articles before the judgement were a lot more damning, he lied saying he hadn't stopped at the lights only changing his story when cctv showed he was stationary for nearly half a minute, didn't bother/know how to use the trixie mirror on the lights and then ontop of that started insulting the girl as she lay dying!
I wonder if he is the same Vincent Doyle that did this?
"Danny" Reidar Farr, killed October 1, 1999, junction of Westbourne Grove and Hereford Road, by a left turning skip lorry, driven by Vincent Doyle, operated by PowerDay. Despite witness evidence that driver failed to signal, court acquitted driver.
If so then the fact that the defence stated to the jury that he had an exemplary driving record for twenty years is unacceptable even if it's technically correct.
unless you're about to set up your own court I wonder if he is the same Vincent Doyle that did this?
"Danny" Reidar Farr, killed October 1, 1999, junction of Westbourne Grove and Hereford Road, by a left turning skip lorry, driven by Vincent Doyle, operated by PowerDay. Despite witness evidence that driver failed to signal, court acquitted driver.
If so then the fact that the defence stated to the jury that he had an exemplary driving record for twenty years is unacceptable even if it's technically correct.
It's technically correct and legally correct that the driver was acquitted and that he has an exemplary driving record
Your 'did this' goes against what the court said 'involved in this' maybe
Jeez can we get the simple things right if we're going to progress this
JuniorD said:
Wow, if it's the same guy. Twice in one lifetime is very alarming.
I don't know what the 'wow' thing is that's creeping into PH postsat least you didnt say 'Wow but Wow'
It obviously has been alarming for the guy as he's had to spend 8 months in psychiatric care
How would any of us fare if it happened even just once to us let alone twice
Spare a thought for those no longer with us in these collisions too.
The trouble with a court case it doesnt seem to go into the layout or other issues that might be improved, only about what would an ordinary Joe have done given those circumstances
Edited by saaby93 on Friday 1st April 12:11
On my annual jaunt to London, within 10 mins of leaving the hotel witnessed the first bicycle accident. Some bloody idiot doing god how knows leptons comes up the near side of a camper van as he pulls over, fortunately he will live to do it again.
And I must add I will never ever moan about the pot holes in Aberdeen ever again. In the centre of London, they are atrocious.
And I must add I will never ever moan about the pot holes in Aberdeen ever again. In the centre of London, they are atrocious.
Rode down the route of the CS2 on Friday and again back in this morning - what the f
k have they done to it? It all looks very new, but the bike lane is cordoned off from the main road and every bus stop is between the bike lane and the road, meaning that there's a crowd of people at every bus stop, each person being an accident waiting to happen. I didn't fancy causing injury to myself or anyone else so stuck myself on the road - what a waste of money that path is!
k have they done to it? It all looks very new, but the bike lane is cordoned off from the main road and every bus stop is between the bike lane and the road, meaning that there's a crowd of people at every bus stop, each person being an accident waiting to happen. I didn't fancy causing injury to myself or anyone else so stuck myself on the road - what a waste of money that path is! Rode down the route of the CS2 on Friday and again back in this morning - what the fk have they done to it? Are these bike paths designed by people who actually ride bikes? It all looks very new, but the bike lane is cordoned off from the main road and every bus stop is between the bike lane and the road, meaning that there's a crowd of people at every bus stop, each person being an accident waiting to happen. I didn't fancy causing injury to myself or anyone else so stuck myself on the road - what a waste of money that path is!
k have they done to it? Are these bike paths designed by people who actually ride bikes? It all looks very new, but the bike lane is cordoned off from the main road and every bus stop is between the bike lane and the road, meaning that there's a crowd of people at every bus stop, each person being an accident waiting to happen. I didn't fancy causing injury to myself or anyone else so stuck myself on the road - what a waste of money that path is! Some parts of CS2 are good, early starts for cyclists to stop left hookers, other parts like bus stop bypass are poor. I've actually designed an alternative idea but need somewhere to try it.
Problem is some cyclist (including very vocal / powerful groups & individuals) want full segregation and will except nothing else.
Problem is some cyclist (including very vocal / powerful groups & individuals) want full segregation and will except nothing else.
I know there is no consistency with road deaths in our Capital but, with fingers crossed, hope that the safer lorry scheme is now making cycling safer.
Campaigners laud impact of London’s Safer Lorries scheme after nine months without a cyclist being killed by a vehicle.
Campaigners laud impact of London’s Safer Lorries scheme after nine months without a cyclist being killed by a vehicle.
Laurel Green said:
I know there is no consistency with road deaths in our Capital but, with fingers crossed, hope that the safer lorry scheme is now making cycling safer.
Campaigners laud impact of London’s Safer Lorries scheme after nine months without a cyclist being killed by a vehicle.
The number of deaths in London has dropped without these safer trucks & the super highways, I think the drop is due to all parties being more aware of each other & surroundings rather than any campaign. Campaigners laud impact of London’s Safer Lorries scheme after nine months without a cyclist being killed by a vehicle.
But what it has done is bring London to a halt with Ill thought out schemes.
saaby93 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-311077...
Different type of tipper
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/second-cycli...
Turning left accident again
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 3rd February 20:27
"The court was told that, had the 51-year-old Dartford driver checked his mirrors, there was "every chance the accident would have been avoided".
Judge Noel Lucas said Taylor’s failure to indicate he was turning left, which would have activated safety equipment, was also a factor in the London College of Music graduate’s death."
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/judges-london...
djstevec said:
saaby93 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-311077...
Different type of tipper
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/second-cycli...
Turning left accident again
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 3rd February 20:27
"The court was told that, had the 51-year-old Dartford driver checked his mirrors, there was "every chance the accident would have been avoided".
Judge Noel Lucas said Taylor’s failure to indicate he was turning left, which would have activated safety equipment, was also a factor in the London College of Music graduate’s death."
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/judges-london...
I looked at the road on Google maps (it's well known for the scamming box junctions) and there isn't a single reason I can think of why a cyclist would be stupid enough to try to pass an HGV or bus there. Even more so when close to the junction. So very tragic and so very avoidable.
Digby said:
So, according to the report, an 'experienced' cyclist rode down a street which wasn't much wider than the HGV and as it moved slightly to the right at the junction (as much as he could before mounting the pavement I would assume), the rider rode up the drivers left hand side even though he wanted to turn right?! He did so because he was "lured into a sense of security by the fact the lorry had moved to the right hand side of the road"
I looked at the road on Google maps (it's well known for the scamming box junctions) and there isn't a single reason I can think of why a cyclist would be stupid enough to try to pass an HGV or bus there. Even more so when close to the junction. So very tragic and so very avoidable.
And yet if the driver had just indicated his intention? I looked at the road on Google maps (it's well known for the scamming box junctions) and there isn't a single reason I can think of why a cyclist would be stupid enough to try to pass an HGV or bus there. Even more so when close to the junction. So very tragic and so very avoidable.
I very much believe that those who cycle up the inside of lorries and the like have made the very clear decision to gamble with their lives in exchange for saving a few seconds of time. This is obviously an extremely bad bet as what you are wagering for what you might gain is massively out of kilter. To me the people who do that have some kind of issue as cyclists tend to be well educated, intelligent people so it cannot be down to an inability to understand the basics of gambling.
However, in this instance the driver actively chose to not indicate his intention. He made the specific decision to not drive properly and to not have respect for other road users. That cannot be countered by an expectation for others to understand his positioning as being the indication of his intent.
I'm afraid he made the decision not to indicate and intimate that he was driving straight on and is the one at fault. Lorries drivers all know they carry a burden of additional responsibility just because of the level of damage they can wreak. I'm pretty sure you understand it fully and go to far more efforts than smaller road users need to. This chap clearly didn't. He deliberately chose to shirk his responsibilities and must live with the consequences.
There is a time to defend fellow drivers and a time to strip them out from your group and string them up. Judging by this story we really are looking at the latter not the former.
Vipers said:
On my annual jaunt to London, within 10 mins of leaving the hotel witnessed the first bicycle accident. Some bloody idiot doing god how knows leptons comes up the near side of a camper van as he pulls over, fortunately he will live to do it again.
I saw similar on Euston road at Kings cross. Lorry in left hand lane indicating to turn left and a bloke on a push bike tries to suff him up the inside instead of seeing indicator and hanging back. I feel sorry for HGV drivers in London, cyclists seem to have a death wish.DonkeyApple said:
And yet if the driver had just indicated his intention?
I very much believe that those who cycle up the inside of lorries and the like have made the very clear decision to gamble with their lives in exchange for saving a few seconds of time. This is obviously an extremely bad bet as what you are wagering for what you might gain is massively out of kilter. To me the people who do that have some kind of issue as cyclists tend to be well educated, intelligent people so it cannot be down to an inability to understand the basics of gambling.
However, in this instance the driver actively chose to not indicate his intention. He made the specific decision to not drive properly and to not have respect for other road users. That cannot be countered by an expectation for others to understand his positioning as being the indication of his intent.
I'm afraid he made the decision not to indicate and intimate that he was driving straight on and is the one at fault. Lorries drivers all know they carry a burden of additional responsibility just because of the level of damage they can wreak. I'm pretty sure you understand it fully and go to far more efforts than smaller road users need to. This chap clearly didn't. He deliberately chose to shirk his responsibilities and must live with the consequences.
There is a time to defend fellow drivers and a time to strip them out from your group and string them up. Judging by this story we really are looking at the latter not the former.
I agree 100%. I am in no way defending the driver, but why would an experienced rider make any assumptions in that situation? Just why?! The truck could only be going left or right and it's a common sight to see such vehicles straddle lanes or position themselves for a turn. He wouldn't have moved to the right to turn right in such a narrow road.I very much believe that those who cycle up the inside of lorries and the like have made the very clear decision to gamble with their lives in exchange for saving a few seconds of time. This is obviously an extremely bad bet as what you are wagering for what you might gain is massively out of kilter. To me the people who do that have some kind of issue as cyclists tend to be well educated, intelligent people so it cannot be down to an inability to understand the basics of gambling.
However, in this instance the driver actively chose to not indicate his intention. He made the specific decision to not drive properly and to not have respect for other road users. That cannot be countered by an expectation for others to understand his positioning as being the indication of his intent.
I'm afraid he made the decision not to indicate and intimate that he was driving straight on and is the one at fault. Lorries drivers all know they carry a burden of additional responsibility just because of the level of damage they can wreak. I'm pretty sure you understand it fully and go to far more efforts than smaller road users need to. This chap clearly didn't. He deliberately chose to shirk his responsibilities and must live with the consequences.
There is a time to defend fellow drivers and a time to strip them out from your group and string them up. Judging by this story we really are looking at the latter not the former.
The rider lacked patience and knowledge and paid with his life. And whilst I agree an indicator may have helped, In my experience, many riders ignore them anyway so it may have made no difference.
DonkeyApple said:
There is a time to defend fellow drivers and a time to strip them out from your group and string them up. Judging by this story we really are looking at the latter not the former.
I agree, but with little to go on beyond a poorly written article, I find it difficult to comment. Outcome of the court
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-360751...
Is there any mileage in asking everyone to hang back behind trucks buses or even cars??
Just in case?
Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 19th April 00:57
[quote]And yet if the driver had just indicated his intention?
I very much believe that those who cycle up the inside of lorries and the like have made the very clear decision to gamble with their lives in exchange for saving a few seconds of time. This is obviously an extremely bad bet as what you are wagering for what you might gain is massively out of kilter. To me the people who do that have some kind of issue as cyclists tend to be well educated, intelligent people so it cannot be down to an inability to understand the basics of gambling.
However, in this instance the driver actively chose to not indicate his intention. He made the specific decision to not drive properly and to not have respect for other road users. That cannot be countered by an expectation for others to understand his positioning as being the indication of his intent.
[/quote]
That said, going to jail for failing to indicate seems to hold these guys to an overly high standard.
I've had several accidents as a cyclist. Stacking the bike all on my own - absolutely my fault. All of the car related incidents have been drivers doing something stupid. The problem for cyclists is that they feel absolutely invulnerable until something happens, you're nimble, you can get out of the way of anything. When it does happen, its bang, no time to react, and you wake up on the road, or in my case, in the back of an ambulance. Once you've had this happen, you don't go up the inside of things, because you know how it can all turn bad very quickly indeed. The other problem is that a lot of them are effectively on autopilot - zoned out on a bit of exercise and not thinking clearly. I haven't cycled in London for a few years (job changed) but when I did, the antics of my fellow cyclists was absolutely terrifying.
I very much believe that those who cycle up the inside of lorries and the like have made the very clear decision to gamble with their lives in exchange for saving a few seconds of time. This is obviously an extremely bad bet as what you are wagering for what you might gain is massively out of kilter. To me the people who do that have some kind of issue as cyclists tend to be well educated, intelligent people so it cannot be down to an inability to understand the basics of gambling.
However, in this instance the driver actively chose to not indicate his intention. He made the specific decision to not drive properly and to not have respect for other road users. That cannot be countered by an expectation for others to understand his positioning as being the indication of his intent.
[/quote]
That said, going to jail for failing to indicate seems to hold these guys to an overly high standard.
I've had several accidents as a cyclist. Stacking the bike all on my own - absolutely my fault. All of the car related incidents have been drivers doing something stupid. The problem for cyclists is that they feel absolutely invulnerable until something happens, you're nimble, you can get out of the way of anything. When it does happen, its bang, no time to react, and you wake up on the road, or in my case, in the back of an ambulance. Once you've had this happen, you don't go up the inside of things, because you know how it can all turn bad very quickly indeed. The other problem is that a lot of them are effectively on autopilot - zoned out on a bit of exercise and not thinking clearly. I haven't cycled in London for a few years (job changed) but when I did, the antics of my fellow cyclists was absolutely terrifying.
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