Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
walm said:
Poor you... how did you manage to cope?
Filtering to the left and right is perfectly legal.
These suggestions that we should ban it are utterly ridiculous.
Clearly in some cases (e.g. left turning HGV waiting at an about-to-change light) it's a VERY bad idea.
But for the vast vast VAST majority of cases it is perfectly safe.
That's why we have literally millions of cyclists successfully navigating through cities without incident.
If you really can't cope with people passing you on both sides, perhaps you should think about some extra driving training?
Where did I mention filtering? Filtering to the left and right is perfectly legal.
These suggestions that we should ban it are utterly ridiculous.
Clearly in some cases (e.g. left turning HGV waiting at an about-to-change light) it's a VERY bad idea.
But for the vast vast VAST majority of cases it is perfectly safe.
That's why we have literally millions of cyclists successfully navigating through cities without incident.
If you really can't cope with people passing you on both sides, perhaps you should think about some extra driving training?
I'm a cyclist too, I know a death wish when I see one you rude little pleb.
danllama said:
Where did I mention filtering?
I'm a cyclist too, I know a death wish when I see one you rude little pleb.
Not just a cyclist but a charming one too!I'm a cyclist too, I know a death wish when I see one you rude little pleb.
You mentioned going "up the inside" - my understanding of filtering is that it means moving past slow traffic on either side of it, so "up the inside" would certainly count. (Like a regular paper filter where the liquid will take any and all routes to pass through it.)
Either way going "up the inside" is also perfectly legal.
walm said:
I guess we will have to wait for a potential reply from AyBee but you are reading a HUGE amount between the lines to assume that someone saying a sticker means drivers won't bother to check their nearside mirror really means "blind spots aren't a real problem".
Even if he DID (bizarrely) mean that - then him expecting someone NOT to check their mirrors would still put him OFF from undertaking... which as everyone on here keeps banging on about DOES take you out of the danger zone.
For the third time - expecting drivers to drive badly (e.g. "not bother to check nearside mirror") is the very essence of defensive driving and almost inevitably makes you safer as you will avoid doing things a more observant driver would let you get away with.
Blind spots is by no means an issue confined to undertaking. The majority (if not all) of those cars clipped on our m'ways by foreign, lhd trucks, were not undertaking. In the clashes between hgvs and cyclists in London we often don't know who was passing who or who 'got there first'.Even if he DID (bizarrely) mean that - then him expecting someone NOT to check their mirrors would still put him OFF from undertaking... which as everyone on here keeps banging on about DOES take you out of the danger zone.
For the third time - expecting drivers to drive badly (e.g. "not bother to check nearside mirror") is the very essence of defensive driving and almost inevitably makes you safer as you will avoid doing things a more observant driver would let you get away with.
I was blind-spotted in my car by an hgv a few weeks back, and I was on his nearside, but I wasn't undertaking; he pulled alongside me on my offside, he placed me into his blind spot, and then forgot I was there.
I think you both might be greatly misunderstanding this issue, but certainly Aybe is massively misunderstanding if he thinks that drivers not bothering to look plays any significant part in this issue, imo.
heebeegeetee said:
Blind spots is by no means an issue confined to undertaking. The majority (if not all) of those cars clipped on our m'ways by foreign, lhd trucks, were not undertaking. In the clashes between hgvs and cyclists in London we often don't know who was passing who or who 'got there first'.
I was blind-spotted in my car by an hgv a few weeks back, and I was on his nearside, but I wasn't undertaking; he pulled alongside me on my offside, he placed me into his blind spot, and then forgot I was there.
I think you both might be greatly misunderstanding this issue, but certainly Aybe is massively misunderstanding if he thinks that drivers not bothering to look plays any significant part in this issue, imo.
You are going off on a tangent here - all to do with blind spots and all of which I agree with.I was blind-spotted in my car by an hgv a few weeks back, and I was on his nearside, but I wasn't undertaking; he pulled alongside me on my offside, he placed me into his blind spot, and then forgot I was there.
I think you both might be greatly misunderstanding this issue, but certainly Aybe is massively misunderstanding if he thinks that drivers not bothering to look plays any significant part in this issue, imo.
The whole point of the stickers is to put cyclists off from going up the inside.
- Whether that is because you have a nuanced opinion on the various different lorry designs and intimate knowledge of mirror usage...
- Or if you just think some drivers don't bother checking their mirrors...
...either way you will think twice before undertaking which is the whole point OF THE STICKERS.
Obviously blind spots can cause trouble in other circumstances too. No one is denying that.
And it is still relevant if an HGV puts you in their blind spot as you point out.
Some stickers may make you remember that the driver may well have forgotten about you.
Or indeed your heightened paranoia from assuming they don't bother to look in their mirrors before pulling off ALSO makes you want to move into a safer position too.
walm said:
danllama said:
Where did I mention filtering?
I'm a cyclist too, I know a death wish when I see one you rude little pleb.
Not just a cyclist but a charming one too!I'm a cyclist too, I know a death wish when I see one you rude little pleb.
You mentioned going "up the inside" - my understanding of filtering is that it means moving past slow traffic on either side of it, so "up the inside" would certainly count. (Like a regular paper filter where the liquid will take any and all routes to pass through it.)
Either way going "up the inside" is also perfectly legal.
walm said:
You are going off on a tangent here - all to do with blind spots and all of which I agree with.
The whole point of the stickers is to put cyclists off from going up the inside.
- Whether that is because you have a nuanced opinion on the various different lorry designs and intimate knowledge of mirror usage...
- Or if you just think some drivers don't bother checking their mirrors...
...either way you will think twice before undertaking which is the whole point OF THE STICKERS.
Obviously blind spots can cause trouble in other circumstances too. No one is denying that.
And it is still relevant if an HGV puts you in their blind spot as you point out.
Some stickers may make you remember that the driver may well have forgotten about you.
Or indeed your heightened paranoia from assuming they don't bother to look in their mirrors before pulling off ALSO makes you want to move into a safer position too.
Yet you admit to riding up the inside of signaling HGV drivers, even if they are shouting at you.The whole point of the stickers is to put cyclists off from going up the inside.
- Whether that is because you have a nuanced opinion on the various different lorry designs and intimate knowledge of mirror usage...
- Or if you just think some drivers don't bother checking their mirrors...
...either way you will think twice before undertaking which is the whole point OF THE STICKERS.
Obviously blind spots can cause trouble in other circumstances too. No one is denying that.
And it is still relevant if an HGV puts you in their blind spot as you point out.
Some stickers may make you remember that the driver may well have forgotten about you.
Or indeed your heightened paranoia from assuming they don't bother to look in their mirrors before pulling off ALSO makes you want to move into a safer position too.
fangio said:
okgo said:
What are the excuses car drivers have for doing the same?
Haven't heard any car drivers say "I risked my life 'cuz it were quicker"?heebeegeetee said:
AyBee said:
I normally see these signs as "I can't be bothered to check my nearside mirror". They've started appearing on small vans now as well, ridiculous!
That is a massive misunderstanding of the problem, which may get you into trouble one day.Digby said:
OpulentBob said:
If they NEED it explaining, then maybe they shouldn't be allowed out without a carer?
Quite!It's brave to admit that there isn't enough 'education' on a CYCLISTS STAY BACK sticker and that as a result, they simply may not stay back.
I'm sure you'd agree that cyclists strapping these to their backpacks would be ridiculous:
"Cyclists Stay Back" is the same level of nonsense.
Mr Will said:
"Cyclists Stay Back" misses several important points. It says nothing about WHEN you need to stay back and does nothing to highlight the fact that the danger exists on the left hand side of the truck.
I'm sure you'd agree that cyclists strapping these to their backpacks would be ridiculous:
I don't think it's nonsense, I think that would make sense attached to a cyclist's back pack or whatever.I'm sure you'd agree that cyclists strapping these to their backpacks would be ridiculous:
'Lorries Stay Back and Don't Put Me in Your Blind Spot' might be useful.
It's an issue for both parties and both parties are getting it wrong too often imo.
TheRainMaker said:
Mr Will said:
I'm sure you'd agree that cyclists strapping these to their backpacks would be ridiculous:
It would if the cyclist went up the inside of a stationary lorry.Maybe they should have to get licences or something. /s
Mr Will said:
TheRainMaker said:
Mr Will said:
I'm sure you'd agree that cyclists strapping these to their backpacks would be ridiculous:
It would if the cyclist went up the inside of a stationary lorry.Lorry driver "I didn't see the cyclist (now dead), but I have a sign so it's not my fault".
Dead cyclist "not sure why I'm dead I have a sign on my back"
People just need to get there heads around these trucks will kill you, full stop, dead.
It's not about who has the right of way or who is in the right or wrong, get too close to a tipper truck and it could end up killing you.
London is a massive beast of a city and it's growing, tipper trucks are a way of life, it's going to take a few years for new safer designs to come on line.
For now KEEP AWAY FROM THESE TRUCKS if one pulls up next to you and indicates left "MOVE".
I know it's not right or fair but thats life, you and me have to share the road with these things, they are not going away anytime soon.
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