Another cyclist dies in London

[ZX10R NIN]

Europa1 said:

Agreed on that: I think motorists get immensely frustrated at the feeling that cyclists can break traffic laws without any sanction, whereas motorcyclists are more likely to face sanction (except from forward-facing speed cameras - grrr!), and I think the speed issue is a factor - the motorist overtakes a slow moving cyclist, comes to a red light, cyclist moves up the inside to take station in front of the motorist has to overtake slow moving cyclist again.

I agree I think this is why cyclists sometimes wind up car drivers

[v12Legs]

Hol said:

v12Legs said:

Europa1 said:

Agreed on that: I think motorists get immensely frustrated at the feeling that cyclists can break traffic laws without any sanction, whereas motorcyclists are mire likely to face sanction (except from forward-facing speed cameras - grrr!), and I think the speed issue is a factor - the motorist overtakes a slow moving cyclist, comes to a red light, cyclist moves up the inside to take station in front of the motorist has to overtake slow moving cyclist again.

Sorry, but this notion that cyclists are somehow less law-abiding than motorists is just laughable.
The majority of motorists are habitual speeders, but even the most damning survey puts cyclist's red light jumping as a minority.

Come off it, you can hardly mention cycling without someone going on about them "all" red light jumping or riding on pavements.


Nobody HAS raised that notion, but yourself??

[Europa1]

v12Legs said:

Hol said:

v12Legs said:

Europa1 said:

Agreed on that: I think motorists get immensely frustrated at the feeling that cyclists can break traffic laws without any sanction, whereas motorcyclists are mire likely to face sanction (except from forward-facing speed cameras - grrr!), and I think the speed issue is a factor - the motorist overtakes a slow moving cyclist, comes to a red light, cyclist moves up the inside to take station in front of the motorist has to overtake slow moving cyclist again.

Sorry, but this notion that cyclists are somehow less law-abiding than motorists is just laughable.
The majority of motorists are habitual speeders, but even the most damning survey puts cyclist's red light jumping as a minority.

Come off it, you can hardly mention cycling without someone going on about them "all" red light jumping or riding on pavements.


Nobody HAS raised that notion, but yourself??

V12Legs - I did not at any point say that motorists are more law-abiding than cyclists. Step away from the persecution complex.

[v12Legs]

Europa1 said:

Hol said:

v12Legs said:

Europa1 said:

Agreed on that: I think motorists get immensely frustrated at the feeling that cyclists can break traffic laws without any sanction, whereas motorcyclists are mire likely to face sanction (except from forward-facing speed cameras - grrr!), and I think the speed issue is a factor - the motorist overtakes a slow moving cyclist, comes to a red light, cyclist moves up the inside to take station in front of the motorist has to overtake slow moving cyclist again.

Sorry, but this notion that cyclists are somehow less law-abiding than motorists is just laughable.
The majority of motorists are habitual speeders, but even the most damning survey puts cyclist's red light jumping as a minority.

Come off it, you can hardly mention cycling without someone going on about them "all" red light jumping or riding on pavements.

Nobody HAS raised that notion, but yourself??

V12Legs - I did not at any point say that motorists are more law-abiding than cyclists. Step away from the persecution complex.

I apologise for misunderstanding you.
It is however a common trope, held by a lot of people who often use it as a cosh to bash cyclists with.

(edited to fix quotes)

Edited by v12Legs on Monday 26th January 16:54

[ZX10R NIN]

okgo said:

What about the thread that was really really long about the bloke speeding before getting clipped and dying? Plenty of chat about that one.

I didn't see that one in which case fair point

[gazza285]

Europa1 said:

Agreed on that: I think motorists get immensely frustrated at the feeling that cyclists can break traffic laws without any sanction, whereas motorcyclists are mire likely to face sanction (except from forward-facing speed cameras - grrr!), and I think the speed issue is a factor - the motorist overtakes a slow moving cyclist, comes to a red light, cyclist moves up the inside to take station in front of the motorist has to overtake slow moving cyclist again.

So is it the cyclists fault that the car driver is held up by a red light? The cyclist in this scenario has no bearing on the average speed of the car driver's journey, yet is somehow to blame for the car driver's anger.

[gazza285]

ZX10R NIN said:

Also don't you feel a better training system would help a lot of cyclist as a motorcyclist you have to pass two Riding Tests plus Theory & a basic skills test that's taken on private ground.

And yet more motorcyclists are killed on London roads.

[Europa1]

gazza285 said:

Europa1 said:

Agreed on that: I think motorists get immensely frustrated at the feeling that cyclists can break traffic laws without any sanction, whereas motorcyclists are mire likely to face sanction (except from forward-facing speed cameras - grrr!), and I think the speed issue is a factor - the motorist overtakes a slow moving cyclist, comes to a red light, cyclist moves up the inside to take station in front of the motorist has to overtake slow moving cyclist again.

So is it the cyclists fault that the car driver is held up by a red light? The cyclist in this scenario has no bearing on the average speed of the car driver's journey, yet is somehow to blame for the car driver's anger.

I was simply agreeing with an earlier post about why motorcyclists are not viewed by motorists with the same antipathy as most motorists hold for cyclists, and in doing so explain why motorists may feel frustration. I was not apportioning blame. As with V12Legs (and thanks V12Legs for your apology ), please give the persecution gene a rest.

[ZX10R NIN]

gazza285 said:

And yet more motorcyclists are killed on London roads.

Yes they do so maybe car drivers need more training lol

What was your point?

[GadgeS3C]

I've little experience of London driving in recent years but from some of the videos I've seen posted here some of the cyclists seem to have very little concept of risk.

Now I know most of the folks on here are probably drivers/motorcyclists as well as cyclists but I do wonder how many of the London cyclists that are KSI'd do have a vehicle licence. Suspect it's not recorded.

I'm not asking because I think cyclists should have compulsory training; I'm asking because London does seem a different world for transport than most UK cities. Without the benefit of some form of training how do people pick up the basics of road safety?

[okgo]

It should be the other way round that to drive a car you must cycle on the roads for a few weeks. That would help a lot of people see just how dangerous and mindless some drivers are. The key for me is that when two people get angry which does happen when you're on the same roads at times, you should NEVER use your car as a weapon, stop the car, get out and do whatever but to run someone off the road or swerve at them should come with very harsh punishment.

[Hol]

People should take a test, that adequately assesses their ability to control their road vehicle.

in our part of Kent children are not allowed to bring their cycles to school, if they fail their cycling proficiency.

As a result standards are high and child deaths are minimal.

[Hol]

in our part of Kent children are not allowed to bring their cycles to school, if they fail their cycling proficiency.

As a result standards are high and child deaths are minimal.

[Hol]

gazza285 said:

So is it the cyclists fault that the car driver is held up by a red light? The cyclist in this scenario has no bearing on the average speed of the car driver's journey, yet is somehow to blame for the car driver's anger.

I read I three times and I cannot see where the red light being there was blamed on the cyclist?

[anonymous-user]

ZX10R NIN said:

pablo said:

Herein lies the problem, if someone else makes a mistake I get hurt.... yet I have to take MORE responsibility for my safety? I cant mitigate against the fkwits who drink and drive, text and drive, dont look in their mirrors, ignore road signs, think its funny to squeeze past me against oncoming traffic.....

Yes Pablo this is how it is, as a Motorcyclist I'm in the same boat but I accept this as a part of riding all of the above is true of riding a pushbike, at the same time there are lots of push bike riders that ignore red lights, jump junctions, drink & ride, text & ride etc.

So it's pointless blaming each other the facts are that there are good & bad drivers/riders everywhere what you have to do as an individual is try & be as safe as possible after that make sure you're wearing suitable protection & hope the incident isn't to serious.

So I have to go out and spend money on safety equipment in the hope it will lessen the impact when a motorist hits me?! That's a joke right?

I only wear that st so when I do get hit I can sue the arse off the driver who will inevitably say SMIDSY....

[Hol]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It's a built up area. Not rural.
Buses, parked cars, lorries, vans, junctions, traffic jams etc.

[Hol]

How hard is it to disengage and re-engage those clips on the pedals??

[TWR]

Having been in this position for a good number of years in Cities throughout the UK, I had a Step Mirror above the Passenger Door ( You may have seen them ) the main purpose of this mirror is to try and stop this happening, the only time this will stop if a sensor is fitted to the Mirror Arm of the HGV and If Worn, the Helmet of the Cyclist, I also think that these Bikes should be insured, they have Cycle Lanes all over the Towns / Cities, & who pays for them?

I have been very fortunate never to have had an accident in 40+ years of driving, but come close with these Idiots.

[allergictocheese]

If you're a cyclist, you need to accept you're vulnerable and that drivers are going to have poor observation and fail in their duties to look out for you. Position yourself defensively based upon survival rather than being right on principle (and dead).

Drivers, understand that cyclists are vulnerable and might fail to ride with sufficient caution. Accept that in any collision you might cause a death and thay cyclists are necessarily aggressive in protecting their space.

Considering many cyclists are also drivers and many drivers are also cyclists, I don't understand why the two groups find themselves at such loggerheads?

[zimzoom]

Hol said:

How hard is it to disengage and re-engage those clips on the pedals??

Easy when you know how. But it takes practise, it's not uncommon to see people fall sideways because they can't get their foot out.