Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
That's interesting to me for a couple of reasons, because:
1. For a long time now I have considered that the average British car driver can not cope with any challenge, be it weather, traffic, overtaking a slower vehicle in front, or whatever. So the idea that the average British motorist would fare better than cyclists is rather fanciable.
Well luckily I'm not average.1. For a long time now I have considered that the average British car driver can not cope with any challenge, be it weather, traffic, overtaking a slower vehicle in front, or whatever. So the idea that the average British motorist would fare better than cyclists is rather fanciable.
heebeegeetee said:
2. If you google Indonesian drivers licence https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-ins...
So, as used to driving in Asia as you may be, do you have a licence or a license for driving there?
I have an IDP which accompanies my EU licence and legally allows me to drive there. What of it?So, as used to driving in Asia as you may be, do you have a licence or a license for driving there?
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 27th February 17:32
Digby said:
More training for the driver and more mirrors would be my suggestion. That's the way it usually goes.
Forget trying to make riders think like the chap who didn't ride down the inside of this truck.
Make HGV drivers have to ride bikes by law so they can get a riders perspective, but leave the riders alone to do as they wish.
It's a brilliant plan.
LOL, but one that many on this thread would have you believe is the right one!Forget trying to make riders think like the chap who didn't ride down the inside of this truck.
Make HGV drivers have to ride bikes by law so they can get a riders perspective, but leave the riders alone to do as they wish.
It's a brilliant plan.
Digby said:
blugnu said:
I'd rather expect all of the parties involved would act differently.
More training for the driver and more mirrors would be my suggestion. That's the way it usually goes.Forget trying to make riders think like the chap who didn't ride down the inside of this truck.
Make HGV drivers have to ride bikes by law so they can get a riders perspective, but leave the riders alone to do as they wish.
It's a brilliant plan.
AyBee said:
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here. There are plenty of cyclists who think like the bloke behind, he's still alive. The tipper drive will have to forever live with having killed someone, a horrific position to ever be in and one which could so easily have not been the case if she'd been as sensible as the bloke behind her. Cyclist education is, IMO, the way around all of this, and instead we'll spend many millions of money redesigning junctions to account for the people who decide they can't think for themselves.
Not sure the lady in this case fits the description in your last sentence.https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/apr/19/mo...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1152796...
As like many in these cases, she hardly fits the stereotypes that the Digbys and cb1965s etc will have you believe.
heebeegeetee said:
AyBee said:
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here. There are plenty of cyclists who think like the bloke behind, he's still alive. The tipper drive will have to forever live with having killed someone, a horrific position to ever be in and one which could so easily have not been the case if she'd been as sensible as the bloke behind her. Cyclist education is, IMO, the way around all of this, and instead we'll spend many millions of money redesigning junctions to account for the people who decide they can't think for themselves.
Not sure the lady in this case fits the description in your last sentence.https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/apr/19/mo...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1152796...
As like many in these cases, she hardly fits the stereotypes that the Digbys and cb1965s etc will have you believe.
heebeegeetee said:
Not sure the lady in this case fits the description in your last sentence.
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/apr/19/mo...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1152796...
As like many in these cases, she hardly fits the stereotypes that the Digbys and cb1965s etc will have you believe.
I haven't written or said a word about her so stick your accusations where the sun doesn't shine you divisive little ****!https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2015/apr/19/mo...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1152796...
As like many in these cases, she hardly fits the stereotypes that the Digbys and cb1965s etc will have you believe.
heebeegeetee said:
You've said plenty about London cyclists and she's a London cyclist, so as with the licence thing, you're wrong again.
I knew ****holes like you would stoop low, but this is bad even for you. You really think trying to imply that I am jumping up and down saying she brought it on herself somehow gives you moral high ground? Oh and for your information licence is spelt exactly thus, if you're too stupid to get that then that's not my problem.
AyBee said:
You can be the cleverest person in the world and still not have any road sense, or you can simply be thinking about something else and not in the moment, either way, if she'd been thinking in that moment, she'd have stayed back, like the guy behind her did.
He knows this. You get used to the 'round the world tour' of desperate excuses and denial of anything he doesn't like the sound of.AyBee said:
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic here. There are plenty of cyclists who think like the bloke behind, he's still alive. The tipper drive will have to forever live with having killed someone, a horrific position to ever be in and one which could so easily have not been the case if she'd been as sensible as the bloke behind her. Cyclist education is, IMO, the way around all of this, and instead we'll spend many millions of money redesigning junctions to account for the people who decide they can't think for themselves.
Very much so, sorry.I have to ride my bike on the 11th March to protect people such as this. More training to go with all the other training which goes hand in hand with the constant ongoing training (which we are allowed to do due to all the previous training)...
None of which will make any difference to someone like this.
But wait! She was a design director! Not a stereotype!
Absolute legends on bikes those types. Most can jump ten double deckers with ease...apart from this one.
This one had no clue about HGVs.
As a result, you should get to hear about pedestrians, motorbikes, other countries, road design, tests, helmets, etc etc...pretty much anything not related to this case.
Once that's all out the way after several days, you can then focus again on the fact she died due to not riding like the person behind and try to figure out why and what can be done about it.
I suggest more mirrors, more paint in the road, more driver training...
Edited by Digby on Monday 27th February 18:57
Looking at the layout of that junction into the roundabout off the bridge, it feels like the pavement is wider than it needs to be, in order to reduce the width of road being crossed by the pedestrian crossing.
I think you could make room there without inconveniencing pedestrians too much, which would perhaps be a bit safer, especially if it's a "known" pinch point as it stands.
I think you could make room there without inconveniencing pedestrians too much, which would perhaps be a bit safer, especially if it's a "known" pinch point as it stands.
InitialDave said:
Looking at the layout of that junction into the roundabout off the bridge, it feels like the pavement is wider than it needs to be, in order to reduce the width of road being crossed by the pedestrian crossing.
I think you could make room there without inconveniencing pedestrians too much, which would perhaps be a bit safer, especially if it's a "known" pinch point as it stands.
Those pinch points are bad news for cyclists and pedestrians alike - not least of all because they give you little or no room to swerve out of the way should you need to.I think you could make room there without inconveniencing pedestrians too much, which would perhaps be a bit safer, especially if it's a "known" pinch point as it stands.
Edited by Engineer792 on Tuesday 28th February 00:32
Digby said:
"Luke Healey, who had been cycling behind Gemmill, said he had hung back rather than cycling alongside the truck. He said there was a pinch point at the junction and that the road layout was ‘dodgy’"
More riders like this please and less of the 53 who couldn't manage to get across without incident.
Still, it's far easier to blame road layouts and white paint etc than take some responsibility.
It also mentions the HGV driver had recently been on a cycle awareness course (required by law).
That will be the course I mentioned would make no difference at all if a rider doesn't understand or care about how they progress around HGVs.
Had this rider been forced by law to be on a course, or had they had the common sense of the rider behind, they would still be here.
Yet another utterly pointless and tragic death.
Hey, you cant come on PH and make balanced, credible statements like that, think how many of the adenoidal voice appreciation society so very prevalent on here have been offended by your reasoned post for goodness sake!!More riders like this please and less of the 53 who couldn't manage to get across without incident.
Still, it's far easier to blame road layouts and white paint etc than take some responsibility.
It also mentions the HGV driver had recently been on a cycle awareness course (required by law).
That will be the course I mentioned would make no difference at all if a rider doesn't understand or care about how they progress around HGVs.
Had this rider been forced by law to be on a course, or had they had the common sense of the rider behind, they would still be here.
Yet another utterly pointless and tragic death.
(On a serious note I am not making light of this persons death, any RTA is very sad, particularly one which takes someones life)
briang9 said:
Hey, you cant come on PH and make balanced, credible statements like that, think how many of the adenoidal voice appreciation society so very prevalent on here have been offended by your reasoned post for goodness sake!
And for every balanced, reasonable post you get an antagonistic one to stoke the fires. Well done :| heebeegeetee said:
It's interesting, I picked three elements out of those two reports that I thought highly relevant, I see you guys have only focused on just the one.
I think that indicates the strength of the desire to blame the victim yet again.
Blame doesn't, or shouldn't, come into it.I think that indicates the strength of the desire to blame the victim yet again.
As soon as you start looking for someone to blame, that's where you shift your focus.
And, as someone must be to blame, and seeing you're unwilling to attach blame to the victim, it follows that someone else must be to blame.
While you're looking for someone to blame, you're not looking for solutions - sorry to be blunt, but that's how it is.
Engineer792 said:
Blame doesn't, or shouldn't, come into it.
As soon as you start looking for someone to blame, that's where you shift your focus.
And, as someone must be to blame, and seeing you're unwilling to attach blame to the victim, it follows that someone else must be to blame.
While you're looking for someone to blame, you're not looking for solutions - sorry to be blunt, but that's how it is.
Not quite.As soon as you start looking for someone to blame, that's where you shift your focus.
And, as someone must be to blame, and seeing you're unwilling to attach blame to the victim, it follows that someone else must be to blame.
While you're looking for someone to blame, you're not looking for solutions - sorry to be blunt, but that's how it is.
Reading the reports, it mentioned that the victim was cycling in a cycle lane lane, which came to an end. That was my first thought, 'well why did the cycle lane come to an end'? I can't think of a good reason. I know these painted lanes are denounced, Digby has just done so a few posts above, countless motorists will park in these lanes, but who knows, but for a lick of paint she might still be alive.
The court was told by the prosecution that the driver kept to the right and straddled a lane marking, but as he approached the junctin he moved to the left and crushed the victim. Now, I'd hope that this isn;t true, but is the proesecution allowed to make unverified statements? On the other hand is that why the prosecution was made in the first place?
We don't and may not know, but our favourite anti-cyclists o this thread are not the slightest bit interested.
It is annoying that it is difficult (or harder than you think it should be) to find out the true facts, so that we can all learn from these tragic occurences. I'll keep an eye on this guy's page http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/ though he seems not to be posting so frequently at the moment.
Re the cycle lane: We know that countless, (the majority, perhaps) believe in the existence of "road tax" and that they the motorists are funding the roads. The roads are in fact funded out of general taxation and council tax. I can't help thinking this lady might have paid a fair amount of tax in her life, and if she lives in London she'll have paid a fair bit of council tax too. Yet she can't even get a painted cycle lane for her money.
heebeegeetee said:
Reading the reports, it mentioned that the victim was cycling in a cycle lane lane, which came to an end. That was my first thought, 'well why did the cycle lane come to an end'? I can't think of a good reason.
It ends because there isn't enough room at the roundabout to accommodate the road lane and the cycle lane....seems like a pretty good reason to me.Also - because it was the cycle lane that ended, the cyclist had to rejoin the main traffic lane - the onus is on the cyclists to ensure it is safe and that other road users are aware of their intention to do so as per HC rule 63:
"When leaving a cycle lane check before pulling out that it is safe to do so and signal your intention clearly to other road users."
I would treat the end of a cycle lane like the end of a normal traffic lane and merge with the traffic - I certainly wouldn't put myself alongside a large vehicle like a lorry. The cyclist behind the woman in this case clearly thought the same.
IMO - education is a big part of this. Cyclists (and pedestrians) are free to use the road without ever having had any formal training. Many won't even have picked up a copy of the highway code (which is crazy - considering it's free to view online). Whilst it wont prevent every incident (like it doesn't for vehicle drivers) - it may help to raise the general level of awareness.
IMO the HC should be taught at school. Schools teach the dangers of drugs, strangers etc, yet for kids aged 5-19, the biggest killer is road/transport accidents - but there is no mandatory education on how to use the roads safely either as a pedestrian or cyclist. Bonkers!
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff