Another cyclist dies in London

[Digby]

saaby93 said:

or because they just don't know about anticipation
Maybe every other time that's happened the BMW has stayed where it is

What type of rider sees a car with an indicator on and another rider obviously stopped waiting for that car to turn, but ignores them both and takes a chance by riding in front of the turning car?

That entire situation shows how utterly moronic some riders are.

They really, really need to stay home.

Don't know about anticipation you say? Do they also have sore eyes due to not being shown how to blink?

[saaby93]

Digby said:

Sums it up. 1000 times a day, all day, every day..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtV51NUtg4Y

Maybe we could change this thread to why are there so few cycling deaths in London

What about Hang back just hang back a bit, no rush

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 28th February 23:06

[anonymous-user]

saaby93 said:

Digby said:

Sums it up. 1000 times a day, all day, every day..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtV51NUtg4Y

Maybe we could change this thread to why are there so few cycling deaths in London

That is exactly what I thought when I watched that video.

How on earth isn't it 10 cyclists a day getting killed?

I've changed my mind. I think we are doing a sterling job of preventing so many deaths.

[Moonhawk]

saaby93 said:

Maybe we could change this thread to why are there so few cycling deaths in London

What about Hang back just hang back a bit, no rush

It is pretty remarkable actually.

This article from 2015 suggest up to 23 million cycle journeys are undertaken each year - with around 14 deaths.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-330027...

That's around a 1 in 1.6 million chance for any given journey.

Considering how congested London is and the sheer number of people coming into daily contact with one another - I would have expected the death rate to be much higher. It's actually below the national average for it's population (London has around 13.5% of the UK population but around 11-12% of the total cycling deaths).

[Digby]

saaby93 said:

Maybe we could change this thread to why are there so few cycling deaths in London

I have mentioned on here before that it amazes me there are not more deaths and serious injuries, but that also, you often have 'on the ball' drivers to thank for that.

The images in that video many find shocking hardly even register for me, now. It's just part of the job.

[InitialDave]

Moonhawk said:

Case in point - quite a few in this video - but the one at 1:49 stands out. The BMW was signalling for a full 8 seconds with nothing around him before starting to make his turn - but two cyclists appeared from behind the motorcycle and tried to cut across it's path.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYOz86G_oYU

All this for what - just so they don't have to slow down a bit?

This could have ended far worse than it did.

I appreciate that this is just one small snapshot out of thousands of road user interactions, but yes. The guys on bikes are either stupid or unobservant.

Digby said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtV51NUtg4Y

As much as I'm willing to defend cyclists as vulnerable road users, this is exactly the kind of st that gets people killed, and the main reaction of society as a whole should be "what the fk did you think was going to happen?"

[Mave]

Mr Snrub said:

Yes but but but:

I saw a driver do it one
Amsterdam
Picture of a badly thought out cycle lane
Obese car drivers
80% hold a driving licence
Drivers should have anticipated it
Highway code section 356 point 76 paragraph 4636 says it's only advice not the law

there, saved the usual defence of such things

It's not defence, it's highlighting that it's not cyclists vs motorists, it's stupid vs not so stupid. Approximately half the population have got a less than average IQ...

[SystemParanoia]

This doesn't help the case for cyclists..

( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4271054/Cy... )

But ffs, there are no words!

[anonymous-user]

saaby93 said:

Maybe we could change this thread to why are there so few cycling deaths in London

What about Hang back just hang back a bit, no rush

Took the words out of my mouth, just wow.

[K12beano]

SystemParanoia said:

This doesn't help the case for cyclists..

( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4271054/Cy... )

But ffs, there are no words!

What on earth is the place of a comment such as "he gave us a good laugh" and what responsible media prints such stupidity?

How to escalate one APPARENT idiot into three or more.

The guy might be challenged in some way, on drugs, or just plain stoopid. But one or more deaths were highly likely - so whatever we might think, comedy is not on the list!

[blugnu]

I wonder if there are any clips on youtube showing people driving badly, which could be used to support the notion that all drivers are useless?

[SystemParanoia]

blugnu said:

I wonder if there are any clips on youtube showing people driving badly, which could be used to support the notion that all drivers are useless?

Preferably set to Benny Hill music

[blugnu]

SystemParanoia said:

Preferably set to Benny Hill music

That would be perfect.

I suppose we can only imagine the number of people who'd come on here saying all drivers were idiotic morons who deserve pain and death if there were literally thousands and thousands of clips of motorists doing really stupid things in the public domain

[Mr Snrub]

Mave said:

Mr Snrub said:

Yes but but but:

I saw a driver do it one
Amsterdam
Picture of a badly thought out cycle lane
Obese car drivers
80% hold a driving licence
Drivers should have anticipated it
Highway code section 356 point 76 paragraph 4636 says it's only advice not the law

there, saved the usual defence of such things

It's not defence, it's highlighting that it's not cyclists vs motorists, it's stupid vs not so stupid. Approximately half the population have got a less than average IQ...

It's the deflection of responsibility. There are certain people on here who just refuse to accept cyclists can be responsible and will always just turn it back on someone else.

[ambuletz]

K12beano said:

SystemParanoia said:

This doesn't help the case for cyclists..

( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4271054/Cy... )

But ffs, there are no words!

What on earth is the place of a comment such as "he gave us a good laugh" and what responsible media prints such stupidity?

How to escalate one APPARENT idiot into three or more.

The guy might be challenged in some way, on drugs, or just plain stoopid. But one or more deaths were highly likely - so whatever we might think, comedy is not on the list!

one time I took a 'wrong turn' whilst cycling from Kingston to dagenham at night. I ended up cycling into the rotherhite tunnel. It wasn't too bad as the speed limit was 20mph so I could keep up. It was damn hot and stuffy in there though. Would never do that again!

[heebeegeetee]

SystemParanoia said:

blugnu said:

I wonder if there are any clips on youtube showing people driving badly, which could be used to support the notion that all drivers are useless?

Preferably set to Benny Hill music

A fellow motorist, yesterday.

[anonymous-user]

blugnu said:

I wonder if there are any clips on youtube showing people driving badly, which could be used to support the notion that all drivers are useless?

Thousands of clips on YouTube of idiots driving and I don't think anyone is saying all cyclists are useless, but in London per capita a lot more cyclists behave like ****s than those in motorised vehicles.

[heebeegeetee]

Mr Snrub said:

It's the deflection of responsibility. There are certain people on here who just refuse to accept cyclists can be responsible and will always just turn it back on someone else.

You couldn't be further from the truth.

It's the nonsense that too many motorists come out with, along with their dire lack of knowledge of the law and highway code, coupled with the very firm belief that cyclists should behave differently from everybody else in society, which they never will for obvious reasons.

If you want deflection of responsibility though, how about Digby's very accurate description of the difficulties of using a vehicle which is so unfit for purpose that the driver can not see clearly, meaning the vehicle obviously can not be operated safely enough. When these vehicles crush people, it's the victims fault for not knowing that the driver can not see.

That's not a problem for someone like me who has driven them, I know just how bad they can be for visibility (and the average driver won't have a clue just how bad they can be) but I don't think you should die just because you didn't have some particular knowledge about a particular vehicle. However, if you choose to take a vehicle with restricted visibility into an an area where traffic is pretty intense, perhaps the operator of that vehicle should be asked to take responsibility for his vehicle if things go wrong?

[Digby]

Mr Snrub said:

Mave said:

Mr Snrub said:

Yes but but but:

I saw a driver do it one
Amsterdam
Picture of a badly thought out cycle lane
Obese car drivers
80% hold a driving licence
Drivers should have anticipated it
Highway code section 356 point 76 paragraph 4636 says it's only advice not the law

there, saved the usual defence of such things

It's not defence, it's highlighting that it's not cyclists vs motorists, it's stupid vs not so stupid. Approximately half the population have got a less than average IQ...

It's the deflection of responsibility. There are certain people on here who just refuse to accept cyclists can be responsible and will always just turn it back on someone else.

I think the point is, you should save such comments for the 'Another driver dies in London' thread.

This is about riders and what can be done to stop them riding as they do in the video.

And who are the posters refusing to accept riders can be responsible etc?

What an absurd notion.

[blugnu]

cb1965 said:

Thousands of clips on YouTube of idiots driving and I don't think anyone is saying all cyclists are useless, but in London per capita a lot more cyclists behave like ****s than those in motorised vehicles.

Do you cycle?