Another cyclist dies in London
Discussion
Antony Moxey said:
I'm not so sure. There have been many deaths where it has been proven the cyclist was not to blame. That being the case it means that a car driver, bus driver, truck driver or motor cyclist was to blame, all of whom have had some form of training. If they are still responsible for cyclists' deaths after training then what good will training cyclists do?
I also wonder what's to be learned. I've never driven a truck or bus or other large vehicle and only drive cars and ride bikes, yet I've never been involved in anything like a potentially fatal situation either as a car driver or cyclist. I'm not a stupid person, I can see the dangers large vehicles pose when I'm on my bike as well as being aware of he dangers I pose to cyclists when I'm driving - what's the point of training for me, what will I learn? Plus I suspect it'll be a nightmare to police and administer too.
And before someone with limited reading skills chips in, I'm not saying that cyclists are never the responsible party in fatal incidents.
By your own admission in SOME cases the Cyclist is at Fault in those cases some form of training might have helped. If for example out of the 12 Cyclists that died last year, 3 of those deaths could have been prevented by those that are commuting into London having to take some form of Training/Test surely it'd be worh it?I also wonder what's to be learned. I've never driven a truck or bus or other large vehicle and only drive cars and ride bikes, yet I've never been involved in anything like a potentially fatal situation either as a car driver or cyclist. I'm not a stupid person, I can see the dangers large vehicles pose when I'm on my bike as well as being aware of he dangers I pose to cyclists when I'm driving - what's the point of training for me, what will I learn? Plus I suspect it'll be a nightmare to police and administer too.
And before someone with limited reading skills chips in, I'm not saying that cyclists are never the responsible party in fatal incidents.
Yes it maybe a nightmare to administer at the start but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
As a side bar 22 Motorcyclists died on the same London Roads last year all they had received training whilst that number is still high it is falling with the introduction of the new test system(I for one wasn't in favour of this new restrictive system)which shows a test system can work.
Edited by ZX10R NIN on Sunday 1st March 06:00
WinstonWolf said:
ZX10R NIN said:
Antony Moxey said:
Probably because most cyclists are also likely to be truckers/car drivers/motorcyclists etc as well. I would guess that the number of cyclists who are purely cyclists is a minority.
Yes but if you're a car driver & you want to ride a motorbike you have to take a test same if you want to drive a truck cab bus etc there are different hazards depending on what you drive/ride.So that isn't a good enough reason to not have training, to look at it another would rider training have helped prevent some of these deaths? I believe so would it have stopped them all NO but being aware of you surroundings & therefore things that could be a danger to you as a cyclist that aren't a problem to you as the car driver.
GEARJAMMER said:
lol, this thread really is amusing.
You only have to read this thread to see why nobody respects cyclists.
The best bit is thinking that landfill sites will have to change their ways.... to accommodate third party vehicles whos design has had to change to accommodate cyclists.
I bet 99% of cyclists/Londoners have never even seen a landfill site, let alone been on one.
Aren't you the idiot tipper truck driver who deliberately cuts cyclists up? You only have to read this thread to see why nobody respects cyclists.
The best bit is thinking that landfill sites will have to change their ways.... to accommodate third party vehicles whos design has had to change to accommodate cyclists.
I bet 99% of cyclists/Londoners have never even seen a landfill site, let alone been on one.
I'd call you a retard, but as you drive a tipper that goes without saying...
WinstonWolf said:
GEARJAMMER said:
lol, this thread really is amusing.
You only have to read this thread to see why nobody respects cyclists.
The best bit is thinking that landfill sites will have to change their ways.... to accommodate third party vehicles whos design has had to change to accommodate cyclists.
I bet 99% of cyclists/Londoners have never even seen a landfill site, let alone been on one.
Aren't you the idiot tipper truck driver who deliberately cuts cyclists up? You only have to read this thread to see why nobody respects cyclists.
The best bit is thinking that landfill sites will have to change their ways.... to accommodate third party vehicles whos design has had to change to accommodate cyclists.
I bet 99% of cyclists/Londoners have never even seen a landfill site, let alone been on one.
I'd call you a retard, but as you drive a tipper that goes without saying...
Construction and landfill will have to change, but not to accomodate anybody. Its so that they can meet the normal legal requiements of operating safely. The money they've been able to save by operating unsafely for all these years will be more than enough to pay for any changes, providing they've invested that money wisely.
'Course, if they've spunked the money up the wall then tough s
t.GEARJAMMER said:
WinstonWolf said:
Aren't you the idiot tipper truck driver who deliberately cuts cyclists up?
I'd call you a retard, but as you drive a tipper that goes without saying...
Lol, just words on a computer screen, do you think I give a fI'd call you a retard, but as you drive a tipper that goes without saying...
k what you think? WinstonWolf said:
GEARJAMMER said:
WinstonWolf said:
Aren't you the idiot tipper truck driver who deliberately cuts cyclists up?
I'd call you a retard, but as you drive a tipper that goes without saying...
Lol, just words on a computer screen, do you think I give a fI'd call you a retard, but as you drive a tipper that goes without saying...
k what you think? GEARJAMMER said:
WinstonWolf said:
Aren't you the idiot tipper truck driver who deliberately cuts cyclists up?
I'd call you a retard, but as you drive a tipper that goes without saying...
Lol, just words on a computer screen, do you think I give a fI'd call you a retard, but as you drive a tipper that goes without saying...
k what you think? Thankfully i've never had to be involved with cyclist fkwittery other than the occasional person i see on the way to work. This weekend i was in Cambridge, thankfully in the car not the truck but fk me how do half of them survive the day?!?
It was dark & raining, bad conditions at the best of times. Obviously the vast majority were students, most of these didn't have lights or any type of bright clothing, weaving in and out of the traffic with arms full of shopping, one even had a massive guitar case on his back which made his center of balance questionable. They'd plough through red lights at 6 way junctions with no lights or even shoes on. We followed one chap on a tiny commuter bike, no lights, completely dressed in black along one road where we met a big 5 exit roundabout which he promptly ambled across oblivious to anybody around him.
These protection things that trucks have to have fitted won't stop cyclists going under the wheels of a truck if they happen to be caught by one. As pretty much all the deaths happen when the truck is turning if they're knocked over the rear wheels will cut in where the cyclist is now lying with the outcome being the same.
kwittery other than the occasional person i see on the way to work. This weekend i was in Cambridge, thankfully in the car not the truck but fk me how do half of them survive the day?!?It was dark & raining, bad conditions at the best of times. Obviously the vast majority were students, most of these didn't have lights or any type of bright clothing, weaving in and out of the traffic with arms full of shopping, one even had a massive guitar case on his back which made his center of balance questionable. They'd plough through red lights at 6 way junctions with no lights or even shoes on. We followed one chap on a tiny commuter bike, no lights, completely dressed in black along one road where we met a big 5 exit roundabout which he promptly ambled across oblivious to anybody around him.
These protection things that trucks have to have fitted won't stop cyclists going under the wheels of a truck if they happen to be caught by one. As pretty much all the deaths happen when the truck is turning if they're knocked over the rear wheels will cut in where the cyclist is now lying with the outcome being the same.
I think it's about time it was pointed out that concrete mixers have to get to *exactly* the same places as tipper trucks, yet concrete mixers have side guards.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=concrete+mixer+l...
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=concrete+mixer+l...
heebeegeetee said:
I think it's about time it was pointed out that concrete mixers have to get to *exactly* the same places as tipper trucks, yet concrete mixers have side guards.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=concrete+mixer+l...
Concrete mixers can be fitted with flutes and concrete pumps with a range of up to 28m, which helps them stay off the worst mud holes.https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=concrete+mixer+l...
Finlandia said:
Concrete mixers can be fitted with flutes and concrete pumps with a range of up to 28m, which helps them stay off the worst mud holes.
They still go exactly where tippers go. In fact, from my 25 years of owning them in the past, when it comes to washing the barrels out they'll often have to head out into the quarry far beyond where the tippers go.Tippers are normally loaded by bucket or conveyor, without going off tarmac.
heebeegeetee said:
Finlandia said:
Concrete mixers can be fitted with flutes and concrete pumps with a range of up to 28m, which helps them stay off the worst mud holes.
They still go exactly where tippers go. In fact, from my 25 years of owning them in the past, when it comes to washing the barrels out they'll often have to head out into the quarry far beyond where the tippers go.Tippers are normally loaded by bucket or conveyor, without going off tarmac.
Finlandia said:
My experience is different, admittedly I haven't been on any UK building sites so can't comment on that, but in Finland and Sweden they do not go where tippers go.
I can definitely say that in the UK, and this is a thread about cyclists in London, the two vehciles are very intertwined in their operations, and one has sideguards and one doesn't, and I don't kniow why that is. The mixer has a higher CoG, so is more likely to roll more and catch the sideguards.Nickyboy said:
Thankfully i've never had to be involved with cyclist fkwittery other than the occasional person i see on the way to work. This weekend i was in Cambridge, thankfully in the car not the truck but fk me how do half of them survive the day?!?
It was dark & raining, bad conditions at the best of times. Obviously the vast majority were students, most of these didn't have lights or any type of bright clothing, weaving in and out of the traffic with arms full of shopping, one even had a massive guitar case on his back which made his center of balance questionable. They'd plough through red lights at 6 way junctions with no lights or even shoes on. We followed one chap on a tiny commuter bike, no lights, completely dressed in black along one road where we met a big 5 exit roundabout which he promptly ambled across oblivious to anybody around him.
These protection things that trucks have to have fitted won't stop cyclists going under the wheels of a truck if they happen to be caught by one. As pretty much all the deaths happen when the truck is turning if they're knocked over the rear wheels will cut in where the cyclist is now lying with the outcome being the same.
I have to say I am surprised the cyclist casualty rates in Cambridge aren't a lot higher. And not only due to the factors you observed, but also the fact that driving standards in Cambridge are pretty woeful.kwittery other than the occasional person i see on the way to work. This weekend i was in Cambridge, thankfully in the car not the truck but fk me how do half of them survive the day?!?It was dark & raining, bad conditions at the best of times. Obviously the vast majority were students, most of these didn't have lights or any type of bright clothing, weaving in and out of the traffic with arms full of shopping, one even had a massive guitar case on his back which made his center of balance questionable. They'd plough through red lights at 6 way junctions with no lights or even shoes on. We followed one chap on a tiny commuter bike, no lights, completely dressed in black along one road where we met a big 5 exit roundabout which he promptly ambled across oblivious to anybody around him.
These protection things that trucks have to have fitted won't stop cyclists going under the wheels of a truck if they happen to be caught by one. As pretty much all the deaths happen when the truck is turning if they're knocked over the rear wheels will cut in where the cyclist is now lying with the outcome being the same.
And another this morning at Lambeth Bridge/Millbank. 
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-cyclis...
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-cyclis...
From the same page on the Standard:
Lorry driver banned from the roads five times admits jumping red light and killing cyclist
Uninsured and without a licence. fking tipper drivers. But of course it's always the cyclist's fault...
Lorry driver banned from the roads five times admits jumping red light and killing cyclist
Uninsured and without a licence. f
king tipper drivers. But of course it's always the cyclist's fault...It is the vehicle type which seems to be the issue, by virtue of its lack of side guards, rather than 'tipper drivers', although I am aware of the stereotype and I too am less than impressed with a lot of the 'muck shifter' types.
Blame is an emotive word. I prefer to try to point out the great danger than an unaware cyclist can put themselves in and encourage them to be more aware and proactive, to enable them to avoid situations that they create and to be able to survive situations that they do not.
Because of the road position of the offending vehicle (which appears to be a tarmac lorry (not Tarmac the company - an asphalter's runabout) on the road, I suspect that the driver was to blame here, but that remains to be seen.
Another sad day.
Blame is an emotive word. I prefer to try to point out the great danger than an unaware cyclist can put themselves in and encourage them to be more aware and proactive, to enable them to avoid situations that they create and to be able to survive situations that they do not.
Because of the road position of the offending vehicle (which appears to be a tarmac lorry (not Tarmac the company - an asphalter's runabout) on the road, I suspect that the driver was to blame here, but that remains to be seen.
Another sad day.
I think I have said this earlier in this thread but most of the tipper lorries that I see as I drive across London are driven with more aggression than an 18 year old at the wheel of his first Corsa.
They are about the only things on the road that frighten me whilst I'm in my car and bloody terrify me when I'm on my motorbike or bicycle. I rarely use the latter two modes of transport these days.
They are about the only things on the road that frighten me whilst I'm in my car and bloody terrify me when I'm on my motorbike or bicycle. I rarely use the latter two modes of transport these days.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff