Another cyclist dies in London

[ZX10R NIN]

gazza285 said:

But are the tests hard enough? Are the helmets heavy enough? Perhaps we can make the tests so hard and the helmets so heavy that it would discourage people from riding motorcycles and make them drive much safer cars, a bit like compulsory helmets and training for cyclists would do. Then we could all be safe together.

The test already puts some off but not enough for numbers to drop as I said they're increasing, by the way helmets aren't heavy.

Also if you want everything left as it is then let's not worry about any accidents cyclists are having & take it as just one of those things if a cyclist dies.

[anonymous-user]

mygoldfishbowl said:

Absolute nonsense.

The difference is research has shown that exercise may extend your life.

Exercise may extend life.
Eating fruit daily may extend life.
Low fat diet may extend your life.

None of which are conducive to cycling.

Show me the research where exercise and a good diet do not have a generally positive outcome on an individual's well being. I know some (most) of PH is anti cycling but this arguement is a curious new depth in the mud.

[GC8]

Nickyboy said:

GC8 said:

It is the vehicle type which seems to be the issue, by virtue of its lack of side guards, rather than 'tipper drivers', although I am aware of the stereotype and I too am less than impressed with a lot of the 'muck shifter' types.

Side guards have nothing to do with this accident whatsoever.

The fact the bike is under the front wheel means the woman was knocked off her bike by the front corner of the truck so side guards would have done sweet FA. They won't stop a cyclist going under the wheels of a truck they'll push the cyclist over and they'll end up under the rear wheels the same way.

Demanding trucks are fitted with them is a knee jerk reaction to a problem that is caused by a multitude of reasons.

Until Boris and his flunkies understand you can't eradicate an issue by targeting one or many causes they will still happen.

Another poorly thought out post from a member trying to be clever, who presumes that they know more, and who has not read the thread properly or understood the (pretty fking obvious, actually) reply.

I have not suggested that guards had anything to do with this - if you cant keep up then keep quiet!

[ZX10R NIN]

Mave said:

Do you really think that cyclist registration and training is the best way to make cycling equally as safe as driving for the cyclist, and equally as dangerous to 3rd parties?

Yes I believe training will help those that are commuting in, but that has been shot down.
Then someone else posted that if cyclists are made to wear a helmet they are more aware that cycling could be dangerous, so by making it compulsory it seems like the easiest way to make cyclists a bit more aware of their surroundings.

I understand you may lose a few people by introducing some measures but surely you must also believe that by having a majority of cyclists who have had training & are wearing a safety helmet that will help the number of injuries/casualties drop.

It has worked for motorcyclists.

I want London to start moving we have had changes made on a lot of major junctions & a lot of them have been made worse not better this is where things really need to change.

Better road planning & integration for all users is the vital key for this & that has always been my point.

[anonymous-user]

ZX10R NIN said:

I agree it would be hard to police at first but it would get better & easier, but if cyclists don't want change then why campaign for special treatment from the Authorities? Cyclists want to be seen as equals but don't want registration or training, at which point you lose my view that you should be treated as an equal.

Helmets should be compulsory (if a motorcyclist had a crash at 15-20mph & suffered a major head injury a lot of people would be saying he should have been wearing one) & if you're not wearing one you should be fined.

It's funny you mention speed. Motorcyclists know all about that. Using your metrics to create an 'equal' world we should tax and legislate the vehicle solely on its speed and vulnerability. The first step should be to impose an 80HP limit on bikes, I'm sure that'd go down well. Filtering should be made illegal and road tax for bikes uplifted to the same level as cars.

Back in the real world....

Its laughable that there are so many anti cycling types in PH, it's no different from playground bullying. The mentality of those that st on those who they feel are more vulnerable, and weirdly, less worthy of respect is that of an under developed 13 year old. I have a motorcycle road licence (expired Clubman ACU licence), car licence and can drive 7.5t lorries. Are you suggesting my cycling profiency that I took aged 11 is more valid?

I think this country is fked. What is with the exclusions to fun? There's nothing better than a decent car on the right day. There's nothing better than stringing a few corners together with your knee down. There's nothing better than climbing a monster hill and descending back through the clouds.

Protect the most vulnerable. In every other situation this is encoded into us, in driving it is the polar opposite, fk them, holding me up, let's show them who's boss...wind that throttle on, blast of the horn, wind the window down and shout 'wker', get nice and close on the overtake the flick the finger....wouldn't happen if you were facing a tank with a loaded shell

Luckily in the countryside it's not quite as bad as all that. You still have to deal with tosspots and the associated exhaust and squeaky turbo showing off along with the odd mindless idiot but it's nothing like London, thank the Lord.

It's so simple. Slow down and open your eyes. Make the odd allowance and understand in every mode of transport there are poor users, they might be having a stty day, they may be drunk, or mad, or both. Does it really need much deeper thought than that?

[saaby93]

Can the helmet merchants take their discussion elsewhere



Calls for junction improvements
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cycling-camp...

The collisions at the roundabout junction in the background Does it look that different to any other junction? Does anyone know what improvements were proposed and dismissed? Humps were mentioned earlier but what difference would humps make there?

What about the truck design too. Is it one of those where you have no idea whats going on at front left?
As someone else said we all have to look out for each other while using a road

Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 11th April 09:14

[ZX10R NIN]

yonex said:

It's funny you mention speed. Motorcyclists know all about that. Using your metrics to create an 'equal' world we should tax and legislate the vehicle solely on its speed and vulnerability. The first step should be to impose an 80HP limit on bikes, I'm sure that'd go down well. Filtering should be made illegal and road tax for bikes uplifted to the same level as cars.

Back in the real world....

Its laughable that there are so many anti cycling types in PH, it's no different from playground bullying. The mentality of those that st on those who they feel are more vulnerable, and weirdly, less worthy of respect is that of an under developed 13 year old. I have a motorcycle road licence (expired Clubman ACU licence), car licence and can drive 7.5t lorries. Are you suggesting my cycling profiency that I took aged 11 is more valid?

I think this country is fked. What is with the exclusions to fun? There's nothing better than a decent car on the right day. There's nothing better than stringing a few corners together with your knee down. There's nothing better than climbing a monster hill and descending back through the clouds.

Protect the most vulnerable. In every other situation this is encoded into us, in driving it is the polar opposite, fk them, holding me up, let's show them who's boss...wind that throttle on, blast of the horn, wind the window down and shout 'wker', get nice and close on the overtake the flick the finger....wouldn't happen if you were facing a tank with a loaded shell

Luckily in the countryside it's not quite as bad as all that. You still have to deal with tosspots and the associated exhaust and squeaky turbo showing off along with the odd mindless idiot but it's nothing like London, thank the Lord.

It's so simple. Slow down and open your eyes. Make the odd allowance and understand in every mode of transport there are poor users, they might be having a stty day, they may be drunk, or mad, or both. Does it really need much deeper thought than that?

There is a limit on bhp depending on which test you've taken lol

[iambeowulf]

yonex said:

I have a motorcycle road licence (expired Clubman ACU licence), car licence and can drive 7.5t lorries. Are you suggesting my cycling profiency that I took aged 11 is more valid?

You're obviously not a biker if you call it that! WTF. I've never heard someone term it like that before.

Expired Clubman licence? So fking what. I've an expired LGV licence but I'd not brag about it. (Apart from just then) it has no relevance to your driving ability. Same if I do track days on my bike.

"Can" drive a 7.5t? Can. As in you could but you don't and never have?
I "can" drive a road roller. I haven't but even if it did it doesn't make me any more competent on the road.

yonex said:

I think this country is fked.

You know what to do with yourself then.

[heebeegeetee]

mygoldfishbowl said:

JQ said:

The difference is that research has proved that cycling extends life, and that imposing restrictions has a more negative impact on life expectancy than the status quo. It's therefore not a no brainer to introduce registration, and one of the reasons helmets are not compulsory. I'd also dread to think how many £billions our government could waste on such scheme, which realistically could never be policed.

Agree with you other comments though, particularly with regard to integration.

Absolute nonsense.

No it isn't, it's completely accurate.

[toerag]

saaby93 said:

Can the helmet merchants take their discussion elsewhere



Calls for junction improvements
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cycling-camp...

The collisions at the roundabout junction in the background Does it look that different to any other junction? Does anyone know what improvements were proposed and dismissed? Humps were mentioned earlier but what difference would humps make there?

What about the truck design too. Is it one of those where you have no idea whats going on at front left?
As someone else said we all have to look out for each other while using a road

Edited by saaby93 on Saturday 11th April 09:14

It's a roundabout, there's something every vehicle has to do when joining one. Look right.

[anonymous-user]

iambeowulf said:

You know what to do with yourself then.

Oh do fk off.

Actually, yes, I do. Ignore the pieces of crap in here that post constant anti cycling stuff. Nobody was bragging, that is your fragile ego being hurt, I was merely curious as to what that chap recommended for me training wise for cycling when I have 28 years of various experiences behind me, cycle around some cones in a car park perhaps? As always on here nobody can have a sane discussion..you know what, you're right..fking cyclists it's all their fault.

Now, let's get back to debating the internet about which car some random stranger on the web needs...that's waayyyyyyy more involved.

Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 11th April 11:50

[anonymous-user]

ZX10R NIN said:

There is a limit on bhp depending on which test you've taken lol

No. A blanket limit, 80HP max across the board. S1000R, 80HP sir, thanks very much. like I said, it wouldn't go down well but you are pretty quick to churn out all these great legislative ideas for a mode of transport that not only has been used since the early 1800's but one which mostly improves people's general fitness and reduces the amount of traffic on the roads. Does anyone want or need more fking rules and red tape....

Just curious but were you even riding when the big 4 had the voluntary 125HP limit?

[Gary C]

Smitters said:

TfL released this a while back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzL0Kyk4m-8

It's properly shocking and makes you realise it takes two to tango most times. Unfortunately (and I say this as a cyclist) the lack of access to formal training for road riding past your cycling proficiency aged 8 or whatever, means many cyclists simply wouldn't grasp how much danger they can put themselves in at times. Just like driving, appropriate road positioning is king, as is knowing when to be defensive, when to stash the ego, and when being more offensive (I don't mean using the finger...!) is actually safer.

It does seem as if those mirros are deliberately badly adjusted, but with the lorry simulating a bend on the approach to a traffic island it's probably genuine, makes you think

A) don't go near a lorry on a bike !
B) lorries need camera's in their blind spots.

[ZX10R NIN]

yonex said:

No. A blanket limit, 80HP max across the board. S1000R, 80HP sir, thanks very much. like I said, it wouldn't go down well but you are pretty quick to churn out all these great legislative ideas for a mode of transport that not only has been used since the early 1800's but one which mostly improves people's general fitness and reduces the amount of traffic on the roads. Does anyone want or need more fking rules and red tape....

Just curious but were you even riding when the big 4 had the voluntary 125HP limit?

I rode a 400cc with 75bhp for three years & had good times on that bike.

You don't have ride a push bike to be fit, lets have an 100bhp restriction on all cars & bikes.

If you read my posts I have said all along integration & better road planning is the key, also cyclists are quick to call for a ban on tipper trucks, more legislation for them & your own lanes which create more congestion for other road users but you want no legislation for yourselves, is being made to wear a helmet that big a deal?

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Saturday 11th April 12:08

[gazza285]

ZX10R NIN said:

...cyclists are quick to call for a ban on tipper trucks, more legislation for them & your own lanes which create more congestion for other road users but you want no legislation for yourselves...

Not me, I just want people to watch the fk where they are going.

I'd be interested to see how many cars, motorcyclists and pedestrians were hit by tipper trucks as well as cyclists.

[anonymous-user]

ZX10R NIN said:

I rode a 400cc with 75bhp for three years & had good times on that bike.

You don't have ride a push bike to be fit, lets have an 100bhp restriction on all cars & bikes.

If you read my posts I have said all along integration & better road planning is the key, also cyclists are quick to call for a ban on tipper trucks, more legislation for them & your own lanes which create more congestion for other road users but you want no legislation for yourselves, is being made to wear a helmet that big a deal?

You'll find that most cyclists do wear them, if you get run over by a tipper truck it's not much help. My point is that there is enough laws already, the problem is the attitudes of road users in general. You can argue as much as you like but I experience such variable levels of consideration when riding, from 'really good' to 'fking stupid'. There is no demographic that catches all, it's just 'everyone', and then not?

I love the fact that people will call me 'a cyclist' despite the fact I own/drive cars/bikes, I am part of 'that lot'. I never said anywhere that cycling is the only way to get fit, it is one of the better ways and one which is less destructive to the body than others but it's not for everyone...contrary to the general perception it is one of the harder sports, addictive and hugely sociable.

I have a case in point which illustrates and neatly sums up my annoyance. We ran a TT last week on a fairly big road, although it was at the weekend. I was marshaling and watched all sorts of crappy driving from cars, bikes, trucks...mainly out-braking each other and squabbling through the filter into the single lane exiting the roundabout. So. This ice cream van (Mr Whippy) slows then pulls alongside me and says "Haa the fk you lot get permission to do tha' on this road, iz a fakin' joke" then drove off.

Some minor details.

• That road is open to all traffic
• The event involves organising police permissions, carrying out risk assessments and supplying marshals

It irks me that some fat biffer in an ice cream van, who probably does his fare share of holding the world and his dog up driving around the various industrial estates and the like has the nerve to whinge. But not only whinge, whinge without the first thought of how events are put together or the considerations that clubs undertake. No. It's just 'a fakin' joke. How long was he held up for on a dual carriageway, not much, if at all.

Here's how it will end up. A few more fellow humans that some of you really couldn't care less about will die and then the Government will decide enough is enough and start to impose drachonian laws on traffic. Maybe slap some more sluggish speed limits around, maybe it will go as far as making insurance prohibitive if you clout a cyclist. If you believe that cyclists are a really serious issue on your commute you probably need a little help. It is more than unlikely that cyclists will be licensed, wear registration plates, have to sit riding exams etc, etc and way more likely that the things that you lot enjoy doing on the roads will be overly scrutinized and more heavily controlled. Cars/bikes/trucks already have number plates, taxation, licensing etc and the infrastructure is already in place to fine and endorse, which means me and most of the people who enjoy this pastime.

As is the crowning turd on every stpile it is the 5% of individuals who seem to cheat Darwin that royally fk it all up for everyone.

[GC8]

saaby93 said:

This shows a somewhat different view to that seen in the first photographs.

Edited by GC8 on Saturday 11th April 15:32

[GC8]

Im not going to edit/delete my post above, as I always stand by my comments and I am more than happy to apologise if I am wrong.

Looking more carefully I see that the tent is clearly visible in the earlier photographs and I have simply missed it, due to focussing on the vehicle with the bicycle trapped underneath it.

[matchmaker]

Meantime, cyclist seriously injured in London. After crashing into a runner...

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/cyclist-seri...

[GC8]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-arts-...