Where do the govt get money to pay dole and benefits?
Discussion
Something has also just clicked for me. I met one of these people who said that he would never pay any tax because it's unfair that he should have to when he didn't choose to have a government. Whether or not he's morally or ethically correct is immaterial, really.
I wished him well (he was about 16) in avoiding HMRC.
I wished him well (he was about 16) in avoiding HMRC.
rash_decision said:
I'm not sure if this is the right place, but it's a start! Lol.
I was talking to a guy I used to work with earlier online, and further to a tongue in cheek rant from a colleague about funding dole and benefit spongers with our taxes, my ex colleague said that taxes don't fund these benefits. This was his response..................
Basically our country and most other countries, including Murica are bankrupt. So the Gubmint needed some collateral on which to borrow money, so they used the public. So basically gov bonds are backed by us, the people and from there the money is 'created'
The complex bit involves your birth certificate so i'll skip that bit but the short version is it is a bond.
So, this bond is worth a f
k ton and it's a type of trust, you are the beneficiary, the gubmint is the trustee, as you were deemed 'delinquent' when you turn 16 and accepted your national insurance number. So what happened is you basically said you can't look after your bond and so you want the gubmint to hold it in trust but as you are the beneficiary you must 'benefit' from the trust as the trustees see fit.
This is why you go from being 'Master James to 'mister' you are no longer master of your ship basically (as this is all covered by admiralty law).
So they borrowed money against your sweat equity and have to pay interest on the loan, that is what 'your taxes' (attempt) to pay. This is why it's always referred to as 'tax payers money' not 'Your taxes' or 'public taxes' when they moan about doleys in the media.
So, your 'taxes' go mostly to pay off the interest on the money borrowed by the gubmint against your life essentially and a few other things, but really not much else.
What does actually get paid re: dole is the wages of the staff of the dole as they are public employees, this is another way of 'truthfully' saying doleys are costing your taxes.
True story, any questions ask away or pm me.
Does this make any sense to any of you guys??
His reasoning for becoming a Mr after a Master is nonsensical tin foil hat territory.I was talking to a guy I used to work with earlier online, and further to a tongue in cheek rant from a colleague about funding dole and benefit spongers with our taxes, my ex colleague said that taxes don't fund these benefits. This was his response..................
Basically our country and most other countries, including Murica are bankrupt. So the Gubmint needed some collateral on which to borrow money, so they used the public. So basically gov bonds are backed by us, the people and from there the money is 'created'
The complex bit involves your birth certificate so i'll skip that bit but the short version is it is a bond.
So, this bond is worth a f
k ton and it's a type of trust, you are the beneficiary, the gubmint is the trustee, as you were deemed 'delinquent' when you turn 16 and accepted your national insurance number. So what happened is you basically said you can't look after your bond and so you want the gubmint to hold it in trust but as you are the beneficiary you must 'benefit' from the trust as the trustees see fit. This is why you go from being 'Master James to 'mister' you are no longer master of your ship basically (as this is all covered by admiralty law).
So they borrowed money against your sweat equity and have to pay interest on the loan, that is what 'your taxes' (attempt) to pay. This is why it's always referred to as 'tax payers money' not 'Your taxes' or 'public taxes' when they moan about doleys in the media.
So, your 'taxes' go mostly to pay off the interest on the money borrowed by the gubmint against your life essentially and a few other things, but really not much else.
What does actually get paid re: dole is the wages of the staff of the dole as they are public employees, this is another way of 'truthfully' saying doleys are costing your taxes.
True story, any questions ask away or pm me.
Does this make any sense to any of you guys??
Edited by rash_decision on Tuesday 27th January 21:25
Edited by rash_decision on Tuesday 27th January 21:28
In 2013 we spent £51bn on funding the national debt (bonds etc) which is a little under 10% of our total tax income.
Source: http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/mar/...
As for "dole and benefits" it's worth separating them out - Dole or Job Seekers allowance is about 2% of out total benefits bill, even if you lump in housing benefit as they often go hand-in-hand it's less than 10% the largest benefit is state pension which is roughly 35% and Child Benefit and Tax Credits which collectively are about 25%.
PAULJ5555 said:
Someone I know -
Bob: I am a freeman of the land
me: ooohh how does that work
Bob: Some bloke told me on the tinternet.
He now thinks he cant get arrested, does not have to pay any tax and can claim right to land for free.
WTF is going on -
Best description of a 'Freeman of the land' I've ever seen was:Bob: I am a freeman of the land
me: ooohh how does that work
Bob: Some bloke told me on the tinternet.
He now thinks he cant get arrested, does not have to pay any tax and can claim right to land for free.
WTF is going on -
'Someone who thinks there is a cheat code for real life'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDjjOCTp2W4
We live in a common law jurisdiction in the U.K.Its quite interesting when you do some proper research on the subject.
We live in a common law jurisdiction in the U.K.Its quite interesting when you do some proper research on the subject.
Edited by retrorider on Friday 30th January 17:47
Edited by retrorider on Friday 30th January 17:48
All this Freeman on the Land Admiralty Law bks is, as pointed out above, tinfoil hat woo of the the most fishcake, hatstand, wibble variety.
Brief summary here -
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land
Read the Judgement in Meads v Meads (a Canadian case) if you want the long version.
ks is, as pointed out above, tinfoil hat woo of the the most fishcake, hatstand, wibble variety.Brief summary here -
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land
Read the Judgement in Meads v Meads (a Canadian case) if you want the long version.
retrorider said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDjjOCTp2W4
We live in a common law jurisdiction in the U.K.Its quite interesting when you do some proper research on the subject.
Which, if you are buying into this claptrap, you plainly haven't! Common law is nothing like what these nutters would have you believe it is.We live in a common law jurisdiction in the U.K.Its quite interesting when you do some proper research on the subject.
In a perfect world then yes our taxes would cover all government expenditure but at present it doesn't so they have to borrow.
The interest rate they get charged to borrow it depends on various factors one of which is whether you have a large law abiding tax base that effectively stands behind the debt and offers surety that the government/country is good for its money. (confidence)
Borrowing money isn't a bad thing in itself but borrowing just to pay your bills eventually will catch up with you whether you're country or an individual, it would be better just to be borrowing to invest.
The world is awash with money that needs to be lent in order to get a return (pension funds/sovereign wealth funds etc....) liquidity is vital to the global economy as is the velocity of it.
It's a bit like a giant game of musical chairs and sometimes the music stops (2008 for instance) and that's when you find out that not everyone has a chair to sit on.
On the other Freeman wibble thread...
I now don't believe a word BV says. He also claimed to be "snowed in", yet I visited my dad today only five miles away from where BV lives, as the red kite flies. Not a flake of snow anywhere!
So on that basis, all the FOTL theory must be true - man overboard!
Breadvan72 said:
jibber jabber
You are Mr T, AICMFP.I now don't believe a word BV says. He also claimed to be "snowed in", yet I visited my dad today only five miles away from where BV lives, as the red kite flies. Not a flake of snow anywhere!
So on that basis, all the FOTL theory must be true - man overboard!
PAULJ5555 said:
Someone I know -
Bob: I am a freeman of the land
me: ooohh how does that work
Bob: Some bloke told me on the tinternet.
He now thinks he cant get arrested, does not have to pay any tax and can claim right to land for free.
WTF is going on -
In America, he'll spout this stuff in the ante-room to the local court then get tasered (followed closely by a thunk as he goes down and drops his camera)... Bob: I am a freeman of the land
me: ooohh how does that work
Bob: Some bloke told me on the tinternet.
He now thinks he cant get arrested, does not have to pay any tax and can claim right to land for free.
WTF is going on -
(It's available on YouTube
.)Regards the original post and question therein (cue hollow laughter), has anyone mentioned "tax freedom day" yet??
Wills2 said:
In a perfect world then yes our taxes would cover all government expenditure but at present it doesn't so they have to borrow.
The interest rate they get charged to borrow it depends on various factors one of which is whether you have a large law abiding tax base that effectively stands behind the debt and offers surety that the government/country is good for its money. (confidence)
Borrowing money isn't a bad thing in itself but borrowing just to pay your bills eventually will catch up with you whether you're country or an individual, it would be better just to be borrowing to invest.
The world is awash with money that needs to be lent in order to get a return (pension funds/sovereign wealth funds etc....) liquidity is vital to the global economy as is the velocity of it.
It's a bit like a giant game of musical chairs and sometimes the music stops (2008 for instance) and that's when you find out that not everyone has a chair to sit on.
Good summary, only thing I would add is that investors have confidence in government debt, because ultimately they can always pay back debt because they can print more money, again not a long term solutionThe interest rate they get charged to borrow it depends on various factors one of which is whether you have a large law abiding tax base that effectively stands behind the debt and offers surety that the government/country is good for its money. (confidence)
Borrowing money isn't a bad thing in itself but borrowing just to pay your bills eventually will catch up with you whether you're country or an individual, it would be better just to be borrowing to invest.
The world is awash with money that needs to be lent in order to get a return (pension funds/sovereign wealth funds etc....) liquidity is vital to the global economy as is the velocity of it.
It's a bit like a giant game of musical chairs and sometimes the music stops (2008 for instance) and that's when you find out that not everyone has a chair to sit on.
rash_decision said:
I'm not sure if this is the right place, but it's a start! Lol.
I was talking to a guy I used to work with earlier online, and further to a tongue in cheek rant from a colleague about funding dole and benefit spongers with our taxes, my ex colleague said that taxes don't fund these benefits. This was his response..................
Basically our country and most other countries, including Murica are bankrupt. So the Gubmint needed some collateral on which to borrow money, so they used the public. So basically gov bonds are backed by us, the people and from there the money is 'created'
The complex bit involves your birth certificate so i'll skip that bit but the short version is it is a bond.
So, this bond is worth a fk ton and it's a type of trust, you are the beneficiary, the gubmint is the trustee, as you were deemed 'delinquent' when you turn 16 and accepted your national insurance number. So what happened is you basically said you can't look after your bond and so you want the gubmint to hold it in trust but as you are the beneficiary you must 'benefit' from the trust as the trustees see fit.
This is why you go from being 'Master James to 'mister' you are no longer master of your ship basically (as this is all covered by admiralty law).
So they borrowed money against your sweat equity and have to pay interest on the loan, that is what 'your taxes' (attempt) to pay. This is why it's always referred to as 'tax payers money' not 'Your taxes' or 'public taxes' when they moan about doleys in the media.
So, your 'taxes' go mostly to pay off the interest on the money borrowed by the gubmint against your life essentially and a few other things, but really not much else.
What does actually get paid re: dole is the wages of the staff of the dole as they are public employees, this is another way of 'truthfully' saying doleys are costing your taxes.
True story, any questions ask away or pm me.
Does this make any sense to any of you guys??
I was talking to a guy I used to work with earlier online, and further to a tongue in cheek rant from a colleague about funding dole and benefit spongers with our taxes, my ex colleague said that taxes don't fund these benefits. This was his response..................
Basically our country and most other countries, including Murica are bankrupt. So the Gubmint needed some collateral on which to borrow money, so they used the public. So basically gov bonds are backed by us, the people and from there the money is 'created'
The complex bit involves your birth certificate so i'll skip that bit but the short version is it is a bond.
So, this bond is worth a f
k ton and it's a type of trust, you are the beneficiary, the gubmint is the trustee, as you were deemed 'delinquent' when you turn 16 and accepted your national insurance number. So what happened is you basically said you can't look after your bond and so you want the gubmint to hold it in trust but as you are the beneficiary you must 'benefit' from the trust as the trustees see fit. This is why you go from being 'Master James to 'mister' you are no longer master of your ship basically (as this is all covered by admiralty law).
So they borrowed money against your sweat equity and have to pay interest on the loan, that is what 'your taxes' (attempt) to pay. This is why it's always referred to as 'tax payers money' not 'Your taxes' or 'public taxes' when they moan about doleys in the media.
So, your 'taxes' go mostly to pay off the interest on the money borrowed by the gubmint against your life essentially and a few other things, but really not much else.
What does actually get paid re: dole is the wages of the staff of the dole as they are public employees, this is another way of 'truthfully' saying doleys are costing your taxes.
True story, any questions ask away or pm me.
Does this make any sense to any of you guys??
Edited by rash_decision on Tuesday 27th January 21:25
Edited by rash_decision on Tuesday 27th January 21:28
- klaxon* *klaxon * free wibble alert, free wibble alert , free wibble alert *klaxon * *klaxon *
ks.Dr Jekyll said:
PAULJ5555 said:
Someone I know -
Bob: I am a freeman of the land
me: ooohh how does that work
Bob: Some bloke told me on the tinternet.
He now thinks he cant get arrested, does not have to pay any tax and can claim right to land for free.
WTF is going on -
Best description of a 'Freeman of the land' I've ever seen was:Bob: I am a freeman of the land
me: ooohh how does that work
Bob: Some bloke told me on the tinternet.
He now thinks he cant get arrested, does not have to pay any tax and can claim right to land for free.
WTF is going on -
'Someone who thinks there is a cheat code for real life'.
IIRC it is like this:
All money is debt. Therefore the government can only pay off debt with debt. Preventing this situation from entering an out of control spiral is the game. When the government say they are reducing the deficit they are not actually paying off debt, the debt is simply not edging closer to that spiral quite as quickly.
The reason for money being electronic debt, as opposed to gold bars, is that it allows for more fiddling of the numbers. In fact the government can pretty much issue any amount of debt, and hence money, that it wants. The only brake is that too much edges close to the debt out of control spiral mentioned above which would create havoc and put any elected person involved out of a job.
What happens in practice is a steady controlled debasement of the currency (inflation) which is controlled by shuffling debt around and issuing new debt as we go.
Plenty of people think that state default is a certainty, it is just a matter of when.
All money is debt. Therefore the government can only pay off debt with debt. Preventing this situation from entering an out of control spiral is the game. When the government say they are reducing the deficit they are not actually paying off debt, the debt is simply not edging closer to that spiral quite as quickly.
The reason for money being electronic debt, as opposed to gold bars, is that it allows for more fiddling of the numbers. In fact the government can pretty much issue any amount of debt, and hence money, that it wants. The only brake is that too much edges close to the debt out of control spiral mentioned above which would create havoc and put any elected person involved out of a job.
What happens in practice is a steady controlled debasement of the currency (inflation) which is controlled by shuffling debt around and issuing new debt as we go.
Plenty of people think that state default is a certainty, it is just a matter of when.
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