Auschwitz

[VxDuncan]

Important to remember it's not confined to a couple of famous camps. Wikipedia suggests the Germans had at least 1200 concentration camps (not all death camps obviously). The scale of the killing is quite hard to contemplate.

[Grumfutock]

Hooli said:

I made the probably foolish assumption that their being free to post on the internet suggests they free in society rather than locked up for mental issues.

Free to post on the internet? I wouldn't let some of these clowns baby sit my dog. Personally I think most of them shouldn't even be allowed to use sharp pencils.

Edited by Grumfutock on Wednesday 28th January 12:16

[Adenauer]

el stovey said:

This is turning into a classic thread.

It shouldn't be.

I visited Dachau a number of years ago whilst on a business trip to Munich. And as a few others have said, the atmosphere is something else. I went there straight from attending an appointment at BMW, still suited and booted, on my own. I walked around the entire camp, fighting back the tears, it was simply so depressing to see how mankind can be so disgustingly horrible.

These things should never be forgotten, and never destroyed, being able to actually visit such a place brings it home far more than any book or documentary ever could.

[vixen1700]

Adenauer said:

I visited Dachau a number of years ago whilst on a business trip to Munich. And as a few others have said, the atmosphere is something else.

Went to Neuengamme concentration camp on a school exchange trip to Hamburg in the early '80s and yes the atmosphere in these places really is something else.

It was all laughs about Hitler etc. on the coach going there by all us kids, but the coach was silent on the way back, I think the place really had an effect on us all. Can't imagine what Auschwitz or Treblinka must be like.

[anonymous-user]

Adenauer said:

It shouldn't be.

I visited Dachau a number of years ago whilst on a business trip to Munich. And as a few others have said, the atmosphere is something else. I went there straight from attending an appointment at BMW, still suited and booted, on my own. I walked around the entire camp, fighting back the tears, it was simply so depressing to see how mankind can be so disgustingly horrible.

These things should never be forgotten, and never destroyed, being able to actually visit such a place brings it home far more than any book or documentary ever could.

I don't know. Seeing family photos of the people who didn't make it, on the news last night, hit me the most.
A family of three, mum, dad, young boy ( I think it was said the young boy killed himself by running at the electric fence). A young girl who was born around the time of the invasion, killed aged 3 years old. I feel I empathise more with this than seeing images of their suffering.
I believe one poster criticised the London-centric nature of the location of the site, yes perhaps it would be better to spend this money on educating in schools all over the country as it's likely there's a lot of kids who might never make it down there, and it would be possible to pinpoint areas of 'prejudice' if you know what I mean.

[Adenauer]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

People are all affected in different ways, but these places should never be flattened.

Walking into the massive shoe room, and seeing the black and white picture covering the entire far wall, showing shoes stacked from floor to ceiling. That image will stay with me for my entire life.

It really is true, the birds don't sing there.

[Saddle bum]

I visited Belsen when on duty in Germany. Very depressing place. They were showing some German schoolkids around at the time and you could see their demeanor change as they went around.

I tend to agree that some of these places need to be demolished after the last survivors have passed on. Leave a plain open space that everyone could visit without the awful buildings creating a bad atmosphere.

Having been bought up in N London, near the the Jewish part of Stamford Hill, many of my school pals were Jewish. Nobody noticed, that was the way it was.

[Grumfutock]

I also visited Bergen-Belsen whilst based in Germany, very moving.

I think that, sadly, we do still live in a world where people do notice Jews and treat them differently. This thread has even thrown up a holocaust denier FFS. So we need these places to remind some people and to prove to others that these events took place. Just my opinion.

[TTwiggy]

Grumfutock said:

I also visited Bergen-Belsen whilst based in Germany, very moving.

I think that, sadly, we do still live in a world where people do notice Jews and treat them differently. This thread has even thrown up a holocaust denier FFS. So we need these places to remind some people and to prove to others that these events took place. Just my opinion.

There have been some odd posts on this thread, but I've just read it all back and can't find any deniers at all.

[GadgeS3C]

Saddle bum said:

I tend to agree that some of these places need to be demolished after the last survivors have passed on. Leave a plain open space that everyone could visit without the awful buildings creating a bad atmosphere.

Isn't the bad atmosphere the point?

I visited Terezin many years ago. Can't recall much of the trip now but I can remember the chill feeling it gave me.

I wouldn't have gone to look at an empty space. I can't imagine that school children would be bussed across Europe to visit an empty space.

For me, demolishing these places of evil is the first step in forgetting what happened.

[schmunk]

GadgeS3C said:

Isn't the bad atmosphere the point?

I visited Terezin many years ago. Can't recall much of the trip now but I can remember the chill feeling it gave me.

I wouldn't have gone to look at an empty space. I can't imagine that school children would be bussed across Europe to visit an empty space.

I was thinking similar, but then compare locations such as Ypres.

GadgeS3C said:

For me, demolishing these places of evil is the first step in forgetting what happened.

Agreed.

[Beati Dogu]

Before the war ended, the Germans demolished some of the death camps like Treblinka and Sobibor and made great attempts to hide their very existence.

Others, including Sachsenhausen & Buchenwald were put back into use as concentration camps by the Soviets as part of their occupation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NKVD_special_camps_in...

[Grumfutock]

TTwiggy said:

Grumfutock said:

I also visited Bergen-Belsen whilst based in Germany, very moving.

I think that, sadly, we do still live in a world where people do notice Jews and treat them differently. This thread has even thrown up a holocaust denier FFS. So we need these places to remind some people and to prove to others that these events took place. Just my opinion.

There have been some odd posts on this thread, but I've just read it all back and can't find any deniers at all.

My apologies. It was on this thread on the same subject matter: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

GTIR said:

The British did the whole concentration camp thing way before those Nazis.

Besides. Everyone knows it's not possible to murder so many people although I'm sure they tried. Most died of diseases.

[Seventy]

qube_TA said:

Why do they keep it there, I can't fathom that.

Yes it serves as a reminder and all that, but it's so close to the town, regular people will have to walk past it every day. Can't get my head around why they didn't / don't flatten it. It's not like it would make it easier for the deniers to, erm deny!

When you get a serial killer or some other sicko in the UK, once the trial has completed they destroy the house where the crimes took place, completely shred them so that there's nothing for trophy hunters to collect. IMO they should do the same to Auschwitz, it's been 70 years, it has no business being there.

Astonishing.I cannot believe I have just read this.

[anonymous-user]

FourWheelDrift said:

fblm said:

Auswitch? FFS

http://auswitchtours.com/auswitch-concentration-camp-history-location.html

Auschwitz is the German spelling.

Well I stand corrected. Don't I look a fool! My apologies to the OP.

Mark-C said:

fbim - this is the sort of st that makes it so hard to enjoy P&P these days. Why don't you fk off back to the playground?

Calm down hard man you'll do yourself an injury bashing away at the keyboard like that.

[Rude-boy]

crankedup said:

I have already expressed my feelings regarding the subject in an alternative thread in the forum.

Would need to mention that I have learn't about some characteristics, attitudes, insensitivity and lack of respect regarding the subject by some posters within this thread. I wouldn't believe it unless I read it.

It has been quite an interesting insight into the human mind. Some posters who I have previously thought diametrically opposed to my view on life have proved that there is common ground in even the most divided (yes I do mean you cranky ), others have stunned me with their lack of understanding (to be kind to them), even if I am not totally surprised to find a lack of empathy.

I went there a few years ago with Mrs RB and, even for an emotional retard like me who has been reading about this sort of thing since they could first read and so was under no illusions, it was highly moving. Sometimes it is just difficult to fathom the shear scale of it all, even when looking into a large room filled to the ceiling with human hair. I remember one area filled with artificial limbs - thousands of them. Worse when you realise that this is what they found when the allies got there so perhaps only represented a month or two's worth, may be less....

What spurred me to post though is that when we were there there were a couple of people who were posing for pictures under the gates. Not tasteful pictures but grinning goons and 'victory' stances sporting huge grins and outstretched arms. As we were taken round we also noted others who were clearly unaffected by what they were seeing and far more interested in just having a good time and that night's plans. Very saddening but one must always remember that not everyone has the same morality, nor is everyone capable of taking basic facts and seeing the bigger picture in it's full horror.

This wasn't the 'simple' raising of a village or town a la what is happening in Nigeria at the minute this was on a continental scale. There is little we can do to stop humans being human and there will always be mass atrocities in the World but we absolutely must ensure that it can never happen on such a vast scale, which I believe is within our power.

Edit for typo

Edited by Rude-boy on Wednesday 28th January 14:26

[Mojocvh]

Yes.

[Rude-boy]

Grumfutock said:

TTwiggy said:

Grumfutock said:

I also visited Bergen-Belsen whilst based in Germany, very moving.

I think that, sadly, we do still live in a world where people do notice Jews and treat them differently. This thread has even thrown up a holocaust denier FFS. So we need these places to remind some people and to prove to others that these events took place. Just my opinion.

There have been some odd posts on this thread, but I've just read it all back and can't find any deniers at all.

My apologies. It was on this thread on the same subject matter: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

GTIR said:

The British did the whole concentration camp thing way before those Nazis.

Besides. Everyone knows it's not possible to murder so many people although I'm sure they tried. Most died of diseases.

I saw that and the posting aftermath of it.

I didn't see it as so much denial, more complete total and utter lack of understanding and thought.

Working people to death and keeping them in conditions that allowed rampant disease and so on did account for a considerable number of victims but basic common sense should tell the poster that it would never have even got close to most - if it did the Nazis would not have spent so much money and resources on finding more efficient ways of killing people. Of course they were happy to 'promote' anything that would reduce the strain on the gas chambers, especially during the various typhus, etc outbreaks.

Edited by Rude-boy on Wednesday 28th January 14:27

[911Gary]

Grumfutock said:

But you are forgetting that the self righteous and pious mass of PH are motivated more by a desire to jump on the slightest spelling mistake or PC incorrect statement than being shocked by the worst genocide in human history.

I agree hence no posts from me for a while so draining......

[Mark-C]

fblm said:

FourWheelDrift said:

fblm said:

Auswitch? FFS

http://auswitchtours.com/auswitch-concentration-camp-history-location.html

Auschwitz is the German spelling.

Well I stand corrected. Don't I look a fool! My apologies to the OP.

Mark-C said:

fbim - this is the sort of st that makes it so hard to enjoy P&P these days. Why don't you fk off back to the playground?

Calm down hard man you'll do yourself an injury bashing away at the keyboard like that.

Hello fbim - good to see the apology to the first post

As for the second point ... I'm not a "hard man" by any stretch of the imagination but my point stands ... PH is for the better when it's a place for discussion rather than pedantic argument about spelling. I'd have said the same if this was in the pub and maybe you'd have given me a proper pasting but hey ho - been there, done that etc