Should disabled benefits be means tested?
Discussion
mph1977 said:
1. local authorities have a statutory duty to provide transport to the closest appropriate school if you live 3 or more miles away from it
2. Motability is a charity, Motability Ops is a not for profit company owned by Motability and someo fthe banks
3. you are not given a car
4. it is not free , it costs higher / enhanced rate mobility component per month Plus any Advanced payment - it works like a 'just add fuel ' lease , becasue that;s what it is.
2. Yep, it's hard to make a profit when the boss gets over a million quid a year salary! 2. Motability is a charity, Motability Ops is a not for profit company owned by Motability and someo fthe banks
3. you are not given a car
4. it is not free , it costs higher / enhanced rate mobility component per month Plus any Advanced payment - it works like a 'just add fuel ' lease , becasue that;s what it is.
kowalski655 said:
+1
No way someone with this boy's disabilities could be educated in a mainstream school
i don't think anyone is disputing this. It's not exactly a positive no matter how much cash is thrown at the situation. However, we are discussing a 150k transit charge. there are many solutions to mitigateNo way someone with this boy's disabilities could be educated in a mainstream school
voyds9 said:
Parents of disabled children have fought for years to have their children accepted in main stream schools.
I think that depends entirely on the disability in question. I was extremely happy when my son was accepted at a special school - he can barely use his arms or legs at all, he can't talk, he can't eat, suffers seizures and has a visual impairment. I can't even begin to imagine how he would cope in a main stream school.Hopefully this won't upset too many PH'ers but his school is 10 miles away and transport is provided for him by the local authority. He doesn't have a nurse though!
mph1977 said:
loafer123 said:
BoRED S2upid said:
Yes the system is very broken benefits being capped at over £20k is a smack in the face to millions of low paid workers.
You're going to have to explain that one.If someone is low paid, let's say they get £15k gross.
On top they get up to £20k benefits paid net, which is equivalent to, say £25k gross.
So your low paid worker is on £40k pa gross.
Forgive me if I can't find my tiny violin...
the benefit cap was introduced to deal with the 2nd or 3rd generation doleites who now have households full of the 3rd, 4th and 5th generation of careeer doleites / future career doleites and keep on popping babies out like shelling peas and encourage their offspring to do the same .
SBDJ said:
I think that depends entirely on the disability in question. I was extremely happy when my son was accepted at a special school - he can barely use his arms or legs at all, he can't talk, he can't eat, suffers seizures and has a visual impairment. I can't even begin to imagine how he would cope in a main stream school.
Hopefully this won't upset too many PH'ers but his school is 10 miles away and transport is provided for him by the local authority. He doesn't have a nurse though!
If you were a multi-millionaire who could live anywhere you choose and chose to live a long distance from the school, and expect the LA to arrange and pay for transport, then you would definitely get my thumbs down.Hopefully this won't upset too many PH'ers but his school is 10 miles away and transport is provided for him by the local authority. He doesn't have a nurse though!
loafer123 said:
mph1977 said:
loafer123 said:
BoRED S2upid said:
Yes the system is very broken benefits being capped at over £20k is a smack in the face to millions of low paid workers.
You're going to have to explain that one.If someone is low paid, let's say they get £15k gross.
On top they get up to £20k benefits paid net, which is equivalent to, say £25k gross.
So your low paid worker is on £40k pa gross.
Forgive me if I can't find my tiny violin...
the benefit cap was introduced to deal with the 2nd or 3rd generation doleites who now have households full of the 3rd, 4th and 5th generation of careeer doleites / future career doleites and keep on popping babies out like shelling peas and encourage their offspring to do the same .
k off.NicD said:
SBDJ said:
I think that depends entirely on the disability in question. I was extremely happy when my son was accepted at a special school - he can barely use his arms or legs at all, he can't talk, he can't eat, suffers seizures and has a visual impairment. I can't even begin to imagine how he would cope in a main stream school.
Hopefully this won't upset too many PH'ers but his school is 10 miles away and transport is provided for him by the local authority. He doesn't have a nurse though!
If you were a multi-millionaire who could live anywhere you choose and chose to live a long distance from the school, and expect the LA to arrange and pay for transport, then you would definitely get my thumbs down.Hopefully this won't upset too many PH'ers but his school is 10 miles away and transport is provided for him by the local authority. He doesn't have a nurse though!
Ms Price did not choose to move away from the special needs school. A decision was made that the nearby special-needs school her profoundly disabled child was attending should be closed and pupils were forced to attend a school further away. A cost benefit exercise will probably have been carried out and it would have been noted it was cheaper to fund transportation to the new school than to keep the old school open.
If that is this case where is the problem?
It's pretty much the same in priciple as what is going on in my home town where the local schools in central locations were demolished and replaced with new housing. The replacement shools were built on the outskirts of town where land costs were much cheaper. To placate disgruntled parents every child is provided with free bussing to school. That's propably a cost of a tenner a week per child. Those with a certain meaness if spirit may well kick off at hard earned local tax payers footing an extortionate transport bill but who's going to say the cost of bussing should be means tested and the wealthier should pay?
Tannedbaldhead said:
Ms Price did not choose to move away from the special needs school. A decision was made that the nearby special-needs school her profoundly disabled child was attending should be closed and pupils were forced to attend a school further away.
'Local Authorities do not have special needs schools locally as these have been closed during the last 15 years as it was deemed a cheaper option to transport children out of borough.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2927994/Ka...
Claudia Skies said:
JagLover said:
The more you pay people to be poor the more poor there will be.
Yes, it's as simple as that.My dad recieves DLA. He broke his leg very badly as a child. He did it in the 1940s and it was misdiagnosed and poorly treated. The story was all the good orthapedic doctors were in the Army at the time. He has always walked with a very profound limp. It worked to his advantage though. Unable to carry out the physically demanding work he attended commercial college and gained book keeping qualifications. He eventually started his own business doing tax and VAT returns for small businesses along with their PAYE and tax returns for wealthy pensioners with property and investments. In the 80s his business boomed as the large nationalised industries shed staff by the hundred thousand and the entrepreneurial among them started off businesses with icream vans, taxis, burger vans, small corner shops, fast food outlets etc. That was a lot of books to keep and tax returns to fill. Dad became very comfortable (New Granada, Carlton, Audi 100 5E sort of comfortable).
In later life his knee and hip on his good side blew themselves to smithereens after years of compenasating for his bad leg. He was crippled. He was assessed and awarded DLA. Thing is at 77 he still works (as much as to keep himself sharp as for the money) he recieves income from property, investments and private pensions along with his retirement pension and SERPs pension. My mum's superannuation pension from a lifetime's teaching ups the household income further still.
The principle of taking off his DLA (awarded due to his disablity) because he worked hard and saved could be added to by calling for him to lose his reirement pension (awarded for being over 65)for the same reason.
Joke is disability payments aren't that much. £54 a week. Dad paid far more in tax as a young man and may well still do so. That £54 pound could well have been skinned from the taxman by him choosing to pursue aggressive tax avoidance schemes. My dad chose never to do so. If he had noone would have suggested he was a scounger. There will be those, however, who will challenge the morality of that £54 pounds being paid out to him for being disabled whilst comparatively rich.
mph1977 said:
crankedup said:
Didn't the Government set up the system of 'medical examinations' in a bid to weed out those people the system considered 'well enough to work'? One or two stories in a rag seems to set the PH fraternity in a spin.
Means testing, absolutely not.
ESA at work related activities is means tested same as JSA Means testing, absolutely not.
ESA has a work focused functional examination which is very much into the realms of Occ health type stuff
PIP has a differently focused examination system which is focused on activities of daily living.
the stuff in the press usually comes down to two things
1. hand wringing lefties who forget ESA and PIP were Labour policies and ESA was introduced by Labour - they have a pity the poor crip/ spacker / nutter attitude towards disability rather than the integrative and empowering models used in current health care practice and by the more switched on support groups
2. people who do not engage with the assessment process and fail to get proper adivce before completing the application forms etc and then unsuprisingly get thrown before they even reach the clinicla assessment phase
The ESA examinations have been roundly criticized for their lack of 'real World' plausibility together with a total lack of empathy with the claimants within the system.
loafer123 said:
Negative Creep said:
It is in that it is still possible to get more money by staying at home than going out and working full time for minimum wage
That is true.if young , fit and single they may well get some HB ( fit here referringto not being eligible for PIP)
if they have a partner who doesn't work or only does a few hours they may get some tax credits as well
if they have kids they'll get child benefit ( which has now become means tested to a degree rather than totally universal) child tax credits and a higher rate of HB becasue of the need for additional bedrooms(s) depending o nthe age and geneder mix of their kids
NicD said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Ms Price did not choose to move away from the special needs school. A decision was made that the nearby special-needs school her profoundly disabled child was attending should be closed and pupils were forced to attend a school further away.
'Local Authorities do not have special needs schools locally as these have been closed during the last 15 years as it was deemed a cheaper option to transport children out of borough.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2927994/Ka...
It is still the case, however, that the educational authority deems it more cost effective to "bus" pupils in from a wider catchment area to a central location than to have more locally available facilities.
I would also like to ask why are you so disgusted. Ms Price, as a mother, has to take into account and balance the need to address the quality of life for the the whole family. I have a feeling her children would be better off living in a rural location in the Home Counties rather than within Inner London, the location of the school. I'm not disgusted by that choice. It seems reasonable and rational to me.
Are you disgusted that the very rich of my home town get free bussing to schools. Should they move closer to the schools?
Edited by Tannedbaldhead on Saturday 31st January 13:50
NicD said:
Tannedbaldhead said:
Ms Price did not choose to move away from the special needs school. A decision was made that the nearby special-needs school her profoundly disabled child was attending should be closed and pupils were forced to attend a school further away.
'Local Authorities do not have special needs schools locally as these have been closed during the last 15 years as it was deemed a cheaper option to transport children out of borough.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2927994/Ka...
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/festiva...
crankedup said:
Seems to me that the disabled have had a rough ride with the current Government policies. All the rhetoric about how those in Remploy were being held back and how outdated the Remploy system was. We should be integrating the disabled into the work place not segregating them. All laudable of course, the reality is that those that lost their work with Remploy most have been unable to find any employment whatsoever. One of the East Anglian regional Remploy closed last year, not a single former employee has landed alternative work.
The ESA examinations have been roundly criticized for their lack of 'real World' plausibility together with a total lack of empathy with the claimants within the system.
The rhetoric came from disabled people not working in Remploy ghettos. The Remploy factories cost £25,000 per employee, not all of whom were disabled. That same funding could help far, far more disabled people into the work place through Access to Work.The ESA examinations have been roundly criticized for their lack of 'real World' plausibility together with a total lack of empathy with the claimants within the system.
Government ministers have to look at the greater good.
Justayellowbadge said:
The local school was the Royal London Society for the Blind School in Sevenoaks. When it was closed, Price and a number of other parents attempted to open a free school, but it was vetoed by ministers.
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/festiva...
By Emmeline Saunders Web Writer on Thursday, 9 October 2014 at 16:26http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/festiva...
Katie Price has finally moved into her new home after selling her luxurious West Sussex mansion
The RSLB closed Dorton House School in 2013
I never expected to do research into the life of KP/Jordan.
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