What's the point of the 11 times table?
Discussion
Wacky Racer said:
I agree with CS, but in my case, I find it easier to put the larger number first....ie:- 12 x 3
Fair dos. Not how my brain works, I think I kinda get what you mean but 6x8 = 8x6. They're just both 48 in my napper!I think I think of it as multiples of the larger number, ie 3x12 is baskets of 12 eggs, 3 times (as opposed to 12 baskets of 3 eggs).
Hope that makes sense. Words might not be appropriate to explain how brains think of numbers
Randy Winkman said:
It's only partially related, but do folk know the explanation of why things have been done in 12s, rather than 10s? I'm told it comes from market traders because you can divide a dozen in halves, thirds, quarters or sixths and end up with whole numbers.
It is because you can divide a dozen so many ways but it isn't from market traders specifically, after all time is measured in 12s. Life would be a lot easier if we used base 12 instead of 10.in the context of grade inflation etc, I find this stuff simply staggering.
the very idea children can't do basic times tables by 12 is mind-boggling (we were taught this from 1st year juniors).
mind you, how many times have you been in a shop and the person behind the till can't add up the change without using the till?
(yet Labour have been telling us it was all about education/education/education, and everybody getting a degree).
the very idea children can't do basic times tables by 12 is mind-boggling (we were taught this from 1st year juniors).
mind you, how many times have you been in a shop and the person behind the till can't add up the change without using the till?
(yet Labour have been telling us it was all about education/education/education, and everybody getting a degree).
marshalla said:
And every year students and pupils fail exams because they can't estimate or approximate the correct answer and don't notice when the magic box gives them the wrong answer (because they mistyped and didn't notice that either).
You don't need to learn the times table by rote to do that. plasticpig said:
marshalla said:
And every year students and pupils fail exams because they can't estimate or approximate the correct answer and don't notice when the magic box gives them the wrong answer (because they mistyped and didn't notice that either).
You don't need to learn the times table by rote to do that. Randy Winkman said:
It's only partially related, but do folk know the explanation of why things have been done in 12s, rather than 10s? I'm told it comes from market traders because you can divide a dozen in halves, thirds, quarters or sixths and end up with whole numbers.
I think it was something to do with the fact that there are 12 hours in half a day.I might be wrong though.
We are obsessed in maths with the times table but its a memory thing not maths, its no more math than learning the alphabet is.
Don't get me wrong its a useful thing to learn for everyday use but get past 12x and people are stuffed.I can't remember it tbh but can work things out quickly like Claudia Skies.I went on to do well in an engineering degree withput being able to remember the TT.
Don't get me wrong its a useful thing to learn for everyday use but get past 12x and people are stuffed.I can't remember it tbh but can work things out quickly like Claudia Skies.I went on to do well in an engineering degree withput being able to remember the TT.
996c2 said:
Thanks for all the interesting responses.
I can't agree with not learning the 1 to 9 times table since it is fundamental to understanding how to multiple and divide any number (in base 10).
12 pence in a shilling is a good reason to know the 12 times table since you need to use money everyday. However, we don't have shillings anymore!
Also, there's 16 ounces to a pound but we don't ask primary school pupil to memorise the 16 times table!
This is exactly why we did learn the 16x table. And the 14x table as there are 14 lbs to the stone.I can't agree with not learning the 1 to 9 times table since it is fundamental to understanding how to multiple and divide any number (in base 10).
12 pence in a shilling is a good reason to know the 12 times table since you need to use money everyday. However, we don't have shillings anymore!
Also, there's 16 ounces to a pound but we don't ask primary school pupil to memorise the 16 times table!
Aunty Dee Luvian
Derek Smith said:
I think it was something to do with the fact that there are 12 hours in half a day.
I might be wrong though.
In the "old" days before handheld calculators and computers you either worked it out with pen/pencil/paper using the times table, which reference the pre-decimal coinage and measurement, as in 12 pennies to a shilling, 240 pennies to the pound, 12 inches in a foot 3 feet ( 36 inches ) to a yard, and as was said earlier I was taught up to 20 times table, which was very useful for onsite mental calculations, multiply the tens and singles and then add together, reversing the process gave you the estimated divided values, which were a guide for long division.I might be wrong though.
Simples.
Why do we not have a meerket smilie yet????
bazza white said:
We are obsessed in maths with the times table but its a memory thing not maths, its no more math than learning the alphabet is.
Don't get me wrong its a useful thing to learn for everyday use but get past 12x and people are stuffed.I can't remember it tbh but can work things out quickly like Claudia Skies.
Agreed, most people are stuffed, but as you both say it's then a matter of working things out, probably using the 1-10 tables when multiplying units and tens (and hundreds if needed). At some point some people won't have the cognitive resources to cope, but the basics are accessible to a lot of people and worth a try at school.Don't get me wrong its a useful thing to learn for everyday use but get past 12x and people are stuffed.I can't remember it tbh but can work things out quickly like Claudia Skies.
marshalla said:
(interim measure until secession from the EU is complete and we can use gallons again). 
In many ways the decimal metric system is actually a British contribution to humanity thanks to the work of John Wilkins (who chaired the Royal Society and held posts at both Oxford and Cambridge) and predates the Weights and Measures Act that formalized Imperial measures by over a century. However Imperial measures actually tend to be less British in origin.So next time you see a man with a foreign name and ancestry waiving a pint around talking about what a British institution it is remember its your duty not to let him undermine actual British achievements and history.
Edited by speedy_thrills on Sunday 1st February 15:30
The big advantage of feet, inches and units divisible by 3 is when Achilles is chasing the tortoise.
In metric the tortoise starts 30 metres away, travels 3 metres when Achilles covers the 30 metres, then 30cm when Achilles covers the 3 metres, then 3cm, .3cm, 0.3cm, 0.03cm and so on so Achilles never catches it. The 33.3333333 metres is infinitely recurring.
In imperial though, the tortoise covers 33 1/3 feet which is 33 feet 4 inches.
In metric the tortoise starts 30 metres away, travels 3 metres when Achilles covers the 30 metres, then 30cm when Achilles covers the 3 metres, then 3cm, .3cm, 0.3cm, 0.03cm and so on so Achilles never catches it. The 33.3333333 metres is infinitely recurring.
In imperial though, the tortoise covers 33 1/3 feet which is 33 feet 4 inches.
In answer to the OP's question:
What is the point of anything?
I've got a cold. A totally useless virus. It doesn't kill but, according to Fred, that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. So what's the point of a philosopher who doesn't realise that there's precious little to learn from your third cold in ten years.
He didn't realise that which doesn't kill you can make you nose run, give you a headache and question the very existence of the universe.
It is all pointless. Do enough to keep going on and then you'll die. But not of a cold.
So the 11 times table is about as useful as a cold. But it doesn't make you grumpy so is, on balance, the better of the two.
What is the point of anything?
I've got a cold. A totally useless virus. It doesn't kill but, according to Fred, that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger. So what's the point of a philosopher who doesn't realise that there's precious little to learn from your third cold in ten years.
He didn't realise that which doesn't kill you can make you nose run, give you a headache and question the very existence of the universe.
It is all pointless. Do enough to keep going on and then you'll die. But not of a cold.
So the 11 times table is about as useful as a cold. But it doesn't make you grumpy so is, on balance, the better of the two.
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