What's the point of the 11 times table?

[dazwalsh]

Even better is 8 out of 10 cats does countdown, she can dress a bit more sexy on that show.

Mrs reckons she has an ear piece telling her the answers but I reckon she is just mighty good at maths.

[V8 Fettler]

Countdown is scripted

[TorqueVR]

I'm now 61 and we ALL knew our tables by the time we left infant school. When my three sons (now 27, 30 & 31) were at school standards had slipped and we were assured by the school that they would know their tables early in in juniors. Now the kids won't be expected to know until they are starting secondary school (Nicky Morgan's quote "We will expect every pupil by the age of 11 to know their times tables off by heart.") FFS we used to know that when we were 6 - 8 and now the TARGET is to achieve it by 11.

The issue here is not the 11 times table, but the extent to which out education system has gone so badly wrong. The education establishment simply sets itself too low a standard and then fails to achieve it.

[Silverbullet767]

dazwalsh said:

Mrs reckons she has an ear piece telling her the answers but I reckon she is just mighty good at maths.

Jealousy, never!

[Dr Jekyll]

Claudia Skies said:

Once upon a time the Romans had a decimal calendar, which is why September (7), October (8), November (9) and December (10) are wrongly named in our 12 month calendar today.

No, they had 12 months but the year started in March and ended in February, as did ours until 1752 and still does for tax purposes.

[Murph7355]

Dr Jekyll said:

No, they had 12 months but the year started in March and ended in February, as did ours until 1752 and still does for tax purposes.

Our tax year, assuming you're in the UK, doesn't start in March.

?

[CrutyRammers]

s2art said:

plasticpig said:

marshalla said:

And every year students and pupils fail exams because they can't estimate or approximate the correct answer and don't notice when the magic box gives them the wrong answer (because they mistyped and didn't notice that either).

You don't need to learn the times table by rote to do that.

True, but its pretty instinctive if you are well versed in mental arithmatic. You dont have to think about it, it just looks wrong or right.

Indeed. It's a lookup table in your brain, which is faster to access and more reliable than working it out everytime, at the expense of storage space. Fortunately we are not short of storage space.
Chess players do similar with specific layouts and moves.

[LordGrover]

As most kids in the sixties we learnt the times tables up to twelve. Certainly did no harm.
As a yoof one of my early 'careers' was as a croupier dealing AR - had to learn 5, 8, 11, 17 & 35 times tables up to 20 (a stack) - plus had to add together some lumpy two and three digit numbers instantly.
Couldn't do it for toffee now though.

[Dr Jekyll]

Murph7355 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

No, they had 12 months but the year started in March and ended in February, as did ours until 1752 and still does for tax purposes.

Our tax year, assuming you're in the UK, doesn't start in March.

?

Should have said some purposes. It got adjusted a bit to allow for 11 missing days and a year that would have been a leap year but wasn't.

[turbobloke]

Dr Jekyll said:

Murph7355 said:

Dr Jekyll said:

No, they had 12 months but the year started in March and ended in February, as did ours until 1752 and still does for tax purposes.

Our tax year, assuming you're in the UK, doesn't start in March.

?

Should have said some purposes. It got adjusted a bit to allow for 11 missing days and a year that would have been a leap year but wasn't.

You could have tried equinoxial shift and ancient spring tax festivals nobody would check it out

[hornetrider]

Seems the Edumacation Secutary doesn't know her 11/12 times table either

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2936140/Ed...

[marshalla]

hornetrider said:

Seems the Edumacation Secutary doesn't know her 11/12 times table either

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2936140/Ed...

Doesn't know the difference between mathematics and arithmetic either.

[WinstonWolf]

marshalla said:

hornetrider said:

Seems the Edumacation Secutary doesn't know her 11/12 times table either

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2936140/Ed...

Doesn't know the difference between mathematics and arithmetic either.

Was brilliant watching her dodging the question on breakfast TV this morning.

I fear this will come back and haunt her big time...

[SpeckledJim]

Claudia Skies said:

I'd be all in favour of a 100 hour day (approx. 15 of our minutes each) with 100 minutes (approx. one and a half of our minutes each) and 100 seconds (almost identical to our seconds).

Errm, wouldn't a CS New Day last 4 and a bit days?

That's going to be problematic.

[oyster]

996c2 said:

Thanks for all the interesting responses.

I can't agree with not learning the 1 to 9 times table since it is fundamental to understanding how to multiple and divide any number (in base 10).

12 pence in a shilling is a good reason to know the 12 times table since you need to use money everyday. However, we don't have shillings anymore!

Also, there's 16 ounces to a pound but we don't ask primary school pupil to memorise the 16 times table!

When are we moving to a 10 month year? Or a 10 hour day?

[saaby93]

LordGrover said:

As most kids in the sixties we learnt the times tables up to twelve.

Was that by age 8?
Why are they talking of by age 11?

[SLCZ3]

bazza white said:

We are obsessed in maths with the times table but its a memory thing not maths, its no more math than learning the alphabet is.

Don't get me wrong its a useful thing to learn for everyday use but get past 12x and people are stuffed.I can't remember it tbh but can work things out quickly like Claudia Skies.I went on to do well in an engineering degree withput being able to remember the TT.

That is the point though is it not, to remember what the product is instead of having to take time out to work it out, I have done quite abit of additional schooling for my job over the years and I remember the way things are worked out, equations/formulas etc.
I am faster using mental arithmetic than using a calculator, because as I am read the question I am already estimating and then determining the answer, speed being quite important when doing thirty theory calculation questions in 30 mins and having to obtain a minimum 70% for pass rate and 80% average overall.

[spikeyhead]

Randy Winkman said:

It's only partially related, but do folk know the explanation of why things have been done in 12s, rather than 10s? I'm told it comes from market traders because you can divide a dozen in halves, thirds, quarters or sixths and end up with whole numbers.

It's mostly relating to how well things fit in boxes. It's far easier to build a box to hold 12 jars well than 10

[marshalla]

spikeyhead said:

Randy Winkman said:

It's only partially related, but do folk know the explanation of why things have been done in 12s, rather than 10s? I'm told it comes from market traders because you can divide a dozen in halves, thirds, quarters or sixths and end up with whole numbers.

It's mostly relating to how well things fit in boxes. It's far easier to build a box to hold 12 jars well than 10

More likely because 12 is the smallest number to have a relatively large number of factors (1,2,3,4,6) so there are a lot of useful fractions available, which can be expressed as integers. - half of 12 is 6, quarter of 12 is 3 etc.

[turbobloke]

marshalla said:

spikeyhead said:

Randy Winkman said:

It's only partially related, but do folk know the explanation of why things have been done in 12s, rather than 10s? I'm told it comes from market traders because you can divide a dozen in halves, thirds, quarters or sixths and end up with whole numbers.

It's mostly relating to how well things fit in boxes. It's far easier to build a box to hold 12 jars well than 10

More likely because 12 is the smallest number to have a relatively large number of factors (1,2,3,4,6) so there are a lot of useful fractions available, which can be expressed as integers. - half of 12 is 6, quarter of 12 is 3 etc.

There's also the point that using one hand only it's possible to count to 12 using the thumb to touch the three finger segments on each of four fingers in turn.

And there are 12 lunar cycles in one year, so while that's primarily relevant to months it may influence choice in other areas.