should us smokers really be taxed so much

[bad company]

RYH64E said:

Yes and no. When I was growing up there was only one pub in the local area that sold food, a Berni Inn where you went for steak and chips followed by Black Forest Gateaux, the rest were drinking pubs where all you could get to eat was a bag of crisps or maybe a sandwich. Fast forward to today and all of the pubs in the same area sell food, in fact they're more like restaurants with a bar attached than the pubs that I remember. I remember a girlfriend (from Strasbourg, so rather exotic for the times) trying to get a cup of coffee at a pub, the barman looked at her as if she was mad, who would order coffee in a pub?

Berni Inn's were never really pubs IMO.

All I'm saying is that pubs should be allowed to have a smoking area or room.

[TooMany2cvs]

bad company said:

All I'm saying is that pubs should be allowed to have a smoking area or room.

Just pubs, or should all workplaces be allowed to designate areas as smoking? Should the people who work in those areas be allowed a say in that, or is it only the customers who matter?

[bad company]

TooMany2cvs said:

bad company said:

All I'm saying is that pubs should be allowed to have a smoking area or room.

Just pubs, or should all workplaces be allowed to designate areas as smoking? Should the people who work in those areas be allowed a say in that, or is it only the customers who matter?

Pubs matter to me but yes why not allow all employers to provide a smoking area.

Mrs BC & I employ a cleaner at home. If we smoked we would expect the cleaner to clear up. What's the difference between that and commercial premises?

[cardigankid]

bad company said:

Pubs matter to me but yes why not allow all employers to provide a smoking area.

Do you mean 'force all employers to provide a smoking area'? Along with the associated lost staff time for smoke breaks, cost of mechanical ventilation, enhanced cleaning, odour issues and the rest? The reason is that people smoking are killing themselves, and if employers, or even the government, facilitate that, they might well be sued later by the very people they are assisting.

bad company said:

Mrs BC & I employ a cleaner at home. If we smoked we would expect the cleaner to clear up. What's the difference between that and commercial premises?

I don't think that there is any. She may have no choice but to work in your smoky environment, but if she contracted a smoke related illness, she could probably sue you. After they have finished with the asbestos cases, the lawyers are going to be looking for a new gravy train, and this looks ideal.

[Sir Humphrey]

TooMany2cvs said:

That's really not going to leave very much for the Government to run services like the NHS and education with.

Good, the government shouldn't be running health and education anyway.

[IroningMan]

Derek Smith said:

toon10 said:

Cotty said:

Im sorry to say that you stink of fags, you may think you don't but you do. I got in a lift the other day and one of the people had obviously been outside for a smoke. He stank the lift out. That smell lingers on your breath and your clothes much longer than you think

Im an ex smoker, when I smoked I didnt think I stunk but now I realise that I must have.

Got to agree with this. It sticks to your hair, clothes and anything else it can. Even when I smoked, afterwards I'd pop in a mint, wash my hands and face and sometimes and take off the coat I was wearing and others would still comment and wince at me for being a bit stinky. It does die down after a while but you can't hide it. I walked in the loos at work yesterday and it really stunk of a mix of what you'd expect to smell and tobacco. It was really a potent smell combination but there was nobody in the room, just the lingering smells of someone since gone.

And a third from me. On top of that, the reason your wife says you don't smoke might be because she has got used to the smell.

As for smoking outside, I've been sitting in a pub garden, having to stay outside because of smokers in the group, and yet still had to have my clothes cleaned the next day due to the smell.

The smell on the breath is one which is not from the smoke but from the lungs.

My wife and I quit smoking in 1999. The files of household documents we have that predate that all still smell of cigarette smoke.

[TooMany2cvs]

bad company said:

Pubs matter to me but yes why not allow all employers to provide a smoking area.

And what about the people whose desks are in that area? Do they get over-ruled by customers as to whether the area is smoking or not?

[Funkycoldribena]

TooMany2cvs said:

bad company said:

Pubs matter to me but yes why not allow all employers to provide a smoking area.

And what about the people whose desks are in that area? Do they get over-ruled by customers as to whether the area is smoking or not?

I think he means a smoking room?
Im more for smoking/non smoking pubs,I really cant see the problem with that.

[TooMany2cvs]

Funkycoldribena said:

TooMany2cvs said:

bad company said:

Pubs matter to me but yes why not allow all employers to provide a smoking area.

And what about the people whose desks are in that area? Do they get over-ruled by customers as to whether the area is smoking or not?

I think he means a smoking room?

So this pub smoking room - nobody's going to work in there? No glasses cleared, no bar?

[Squiggs]

Derek Smith said:

toon10 said:

Cotty said:

Im sorry to say that you stink of fags, you may think you don't but you do. I got in a lift the other day and one of the people had obviously been outside for a smoke. He stank the lift out. That smell lingers on your breath and your clothes much longer than you think

Im an ex smoker, when I smoked I didnt think I stunk but now I realise that I must have.

Got to agree with this. It sticks to your hair, clothes and anything else it can. Even when I smoked, afterwards I'd pop in a mint, wash my hands and face and sometimes and take off the coat I was wearing and others would still comment and wince at me for being a bit stinky. It does die down after a while but you can't hide it. I walked in the loos at work yesterday and it really stunk of a mix of what you'd expect to smell and tobacco. It was really a potent smell combination but there was nobody in the room, just the lingering smells of someone since gone.

And a third from me. On top of that, the reason your wife says you don't smoke might be because she has got used to the smell.

As for smoking outside, I've been sitting in a pub garden, having to stay outside because of smokers in the group, and yet still had to have my clothes cleaned the next day due to the smell.

The smell on the breath is one which is not from the smoke but from the lungs.

Oh get over yourselves guys!
Next you'll be saying you can't walk past the fish counter a Tescos without smelling like a fishmonger - or you have to wash your all your clothes to get rid of the smell of frying if you happen to pass a chip shop.

And how dare you say the reason my wife can't smell it is because she's got used to it! She's an ex-smoker and hates the smell of cigarettes! If you said you didn't stink of st and your wife couldn't smell you stinking of st could I justifiably suggest that you do smell of st but your wife has got used to it? I don't think so.
My clothes don't smell because as I said earlier I only ever smoke outside - never in the house, never in my car, never in an enclosed space.
Surprising as it may seem the air outside easily dissipates the little amount of smoke given off by a single cigarette. You may smell the smoke in the air from a single cigarette but realistically it's unlikely to make anybody nearby smell like they've been standing next to bonfire.


And talk about paranoid - people sitting away from other people cos they've been cycling - really?
You do know that fresh sweat doesn't smell don't you? That it's only an accumulation of bacterial growth on stale sweat that gives a odour.
Christ if we (smokers) are dealing with people that apparently have such strong OCD yet are seemingly so uneducated about the things that they are OCD about then smokers are always going to be on a hiding to nothing - even if the smoke was totally odourless.

What next - I farted this morning therefore I spent all day avoiding people because my clothes smelt of fart. And as soon as I could I put all the clothes I was wearing in the washing machine cos they all smelt of fart and I followed that with a shower to get rid of the smell of fart from my skin and hair?

Or is it a case that because we all fart we've all got used to each other smelling of farts?

The fact of the matter is my smoking rarely effects anybody else, and you OTT OCD people can ridicule me all you like - but you'll be doing without any further participation from me.

[Sir Humphrey]

Smoke if you want to, if you don't want to breathe someone else's cigarette smoke sit further away from them, is it that hard?

[johnxjsc1985]

Sir Humphrey said:

Smoke if you want to, if you don't want to breathe someone else's cigarette smoke sit further away from them, is it that hard?

that's far too simple and er practical.

[Sir Humphrey]

johnxjsc1985 said:

that's far too simple and er practical.

And it means the best provider provides all the services, could never have that. Why would people continue to vote Labour if they get a decent education and get out of poverty?

[Cotty]

Squiggs said:

My clothes don't smell because as I said earlier I only ever smoke outside

You may smoke outside but your lungs are inside you. You carry them into an environment where people can smell it when you exhale.

Squiggs said:

Surprising as it may seem the air outside easily dissipates the little amount of smoke given off by a single cigarette. You may smell the smoke in the air from a single cigarette but realistically it's unlikely to make anybody nearby smell like they've been standing next to bonfire.

It does not dissipate as quickly as you think, because you can't smell it. Your sense of smell and taste are muted from smoking and you are so used to the smell you don't notice it. Take the jumper/coat/t-shirt you were wearing when you smoked outside put it in a sealed bag and stop smoking for a week or two, now take a long hard sniff of that bag. Yep that's what you sell like to other people all the time.

Squiggs said:

Christ if we (smokers) are dealing with people that apparently have such strong OCD yet are seemingly so uneducated about the things that they are OCD about then smokers are always going to be on a hiding to nothing - even if the smoke was totally odourless.

Welcome to the world of the vaper/e-cig user. My vapour if you can smell it is either rhubarb or peach but I can't use it in a pub or anywhere inside as people think im smoking, im not.

Squiggs said:

The fact of the matter is my smoking rarely effects anybody else, and you OTT OCD people can ridicule me all you like - but you'll be doing without any further participation from me.

Believe me it affects other people. Even when I smoked I worked with a guy who would take regular smoke breaks outside. When he came back I could tell because I could smell him from 4/5 feet away even as a smoker.

If you wish to carry on smoking I have no problem with that but don't fool yourself that you don't smell of smoke.

[Strawman]

This thread has mutated into a massively boring discussion about whether people who smoke smell of smoke or not, personally I couldn't give a rat's arse, there are legion more annoying smells. The tax question has been lost in this debate which is a shame.

[Cotty]

Sir Humphrey said:

Smoke if you want to, if you don't want to breathe someone else's cigarette smoke sit further away from them, is it that hard?

Not as easy as that. After one of the F1 races at Silverstone I was sitting in one of the huge marquee watching a tennis match on the big screens. I thought it would be ok to smoke as most of the sides were open and therefore good airflow/dissipation of smoke. The wind changed and someone 20 foot away asked if I would not smoke as it was drifting over to them. I didn't expect them to move so I finished the cig outside, checking the wind was not blowing the smoke back inside the marquee.

They didn't complain when a friend brought in a big pot of risotto and the smell drifted over to them.

[Cotty]

Strawman said:

This thread has mutated into a massively boring discussion about whether people who smoke smell of smoke or not, personally I couldn't give a rat's arse, there are legion more annoying smells. The tax question has been lost in this debate which is a shame.

Sorry about that . As for the original question "should us smokers really be taxed so much" im 50/50. On one hand the government just see it as an easy way to get money on the pretence they are helping smokers to quit. On the other hand people should be free to do what they want without being interfered with/taxed to death for it.

[Strawman]

Cotty said:

Sorry about that .

I'm not blaming you, just the way the post landed.

[Funkycoldribena]

It does always grind me that you can tax petrol,diesel,cigarettes etc more than the cost of the product itself,I know that sort of sounds simplistic because the revenue is needed, but when you stop and think about it...

[bodhi]

cardigankid said:

bad company said:

Pubs matter to me but yes why not allow all employers to provide a smoking area.

Do you mean 'force all employers to provide a smoking area'? Along with the associated lost staff time for smoke breaks, cost of mechanical ventilation, enhanced cleaning, odour issues and the rest? The reason is that people smoking are killing themselves, and if employers, or even the government, facilitate that, they might well be sued later by the very people they are assisting.

bad company said:

Mrs BC & I employ a cleaner at home. If we smoked we would expect the cleaner to clear up. What's the difference between that and commercial premises?

I don't think that there is any. She may have no choice but to work in your smoky environment, but if she contracted a smoke related illness, she could probably sue you. After they have finished with the asbestos cases, the lawyers are going to be looking for a new gravy train, and this looks ideal.

Not entirely sure how you get places would be forced to provide facilities for people to have a smoke indoors, however I see no issue with allowing people to provide those facilities if they so wish. Forcing is just a sign of intolerance imo, like forcing people to go out in the rain and cold to have a smoke, or not employing smokers.

Works pretty well in the Netherlands, the hotel I usually stay at has a smoking area in the lobby, a well ventilated area sealed with a glass door, no bar service or anything there, just a relaxing area to have a smoke and have a beer. Didn't notice any customers complaining, and the staff certainly didn't care as they all congregated there after the bar shut...and thanks to them doing this they get our business.

But back to the original question, yes I do think the tax is far too high on cigs, as it just encourages people to avoid paying it altogether. Because the government have decided that I am a cash cow that must be milked, I've decided to ggive my money to the Dutch and French governments instead.

20 Marlboro from Tesco are about £9, Schiphol Airport, £4.30 with full duty paid. Those who don't have this option will have someone that can get cheap fags from.

Edited by bodhi on Thursday 12th February 00:33