Tipper Truck incident in Bath
Discussion
I'm amazed how hard some of the modern truck drivers are on Brakes , go to the peak district and smell the brakes as the quarry wagons hurtle down long winding hills , as someone with mechanical knowledge I tend to treat brakes with respect, a good truck driver will use his gears and exhaust brake mostly , not constantly riding the brakes , maybe poor maintenance did play a part but I doubt a more experienced driver would have had the same problems !!! you only have to see how most people fly up to a junction and slam on at the last second , everyone should have to learn to drive in a morris minor or al least a car without ABS ...
italianjob1275 said:
heebeegeetee said:
Was he on a young driver scheme, is the normal age limit for hgvs still 21 or has that been changed?
The minimum age changed to 18 the same time the super brilliant driver CPC was introduced. 
Do we know, was this driver new to this job or was he a new hgv driver full stop?
italianjob1275 said:
heebeegeetee said:
Was he on a young driver scheme, is the normal age limit for hgvs still 21 or has that been changed?
The minimum age changed to 18 the same time the super brilliant driver CPC was introduced. Just crammed three days of that stuff in - two more to go for me before 2018 in order to keep my right to drive the HGV I own. The scheme is a nonsense, based almost purely on attendance for a fixed number of hours rather than understanding of topics covered. I could have done the three days in one; I'm no saying it was not useful or beneficial or worthwhile, but merely that it's needlessly strung out and caters for the lowest common denominator.
powerstroke said:
, maybe poor maintenance did play a part but I doubt a more experienced driver would have had the same problems !!!
Poor maintenance DID play a part, as the verdict and evidence has proven. I'm intrigued how a more experienced driver could defy the laws of physics but I'm sure it's something to do with their complacency and years of making mistakes.The reality is the driver is guilty of a whole bunch of things, but not necessarily the one's that he was charged with (a decision made by the CPS to ensure a prison sentence). An older driver may have had the conviction to avoid the scenario (not driving defective vehicle down a restricted route) and be in the position to walk away from a job run by a complete cowboy. Sadly this 19yr old didn't have the maturity to do that.
There was an extended program on the local news last night, its seems the courts decided the right thing.
The young driver was in his 2nd day of the job, new to it all, the boss told him don't worry about the warning light, he followed is boss out onto the road & down that hill.
The boss had plenty of previous, tried to hide the fact it was his lorry at the scene, did not try to help the victims, sounds like all round nice chap. I hope he gets a massive sentence.
His mechanic was also complicit in all this & was obviously the worst bodger you've ever seen.
The young driver was in his 2nd day of the job, new to it all, the boss told him don't worry about the warning light, he followed is boss out onto the road & down that hill.
The boss had plenty of previous, tried to hide the fact it was his lorry at the scene, did not try to help the victims, sounds like all round nice chap. I hope he gets a massive sentence.
His mechanic was also complicit in all this & was obviously the worst bodger you've ever seen.
powerstroke said:
I'm amazed how hard some of the modern truck drivers are on Brakes , go to the peak district and smell the brakes as the quarry wagons hurtle down long winding hills , as someone with mechanical knowledge I tend to treat brakes with respect, a good truck driver will use his gears and exhaust brake mostly , not constantly riding the brakes , maybe poor maintenance did play a part but I doubt a more experienced driver would have had the same problems !!! you only have to see how most people fly up to a junction and slam on at the last second , everyone should have to learn to drive in a morris minor or al least a car without ABS ...
This is a very good point. One of our super brilliant CPC courses we where lectured at length (by a non HGV driver!) that it was "brakes to slow gears to go" always be in the highest gear possible and always avoid using your exhaust brake. It's all MPG MPG these days...
italianjob1275 said:
CPC courses we where lectured at length (by a non HGV driver!)
Anyone who's ever driven an HGV would see, in a nutshell, what bulls
t the current CPC system is, if you can have an 'instructor' that's never spent any time behind the wheel of an HGV. Huge parts of the system being administered by people with no idea of the reality of the skills required is just part of the reason why things are going wrong.Digga said:
nyone who's ever driven an HGV would see, in a nutshell, what bullst the current CPC system is, if you can have an 'instructor' that's never spent any time behind the wheel of an HGV. Huge parts of the system being administered by people with no idea of the reality of the skills required is just part of the reason why things are going wrong.
That's it. We questioned it all obviously, and where told you didn't need to slow down using gears anymore as brakes are so good nowadays...t the current CPC system is, if you can have an 'instructor' that's never spent any time behind the wheel of an HGV. Huge parts of the system being administered by people with no idea of the reality of the skills required is just part of the reason why things are going wrong.Until your boss hasn't bothered maintaining them, then you're f
ked!General Price said:
italianjob1275 said:
The minimum age changed to 18 the same time the super brilliant driver CPC was introduced.
It has been 18 for a lot longer than the cpc has been about.The young HGV driver scheme started in the 70's
The young driver scheme was only selected employers, and was like a modern apprenticeship as far as I understand.
italianjob1275 said:
Digga said:
nyone who's ever driven an HGV would see, in a nutshell, what bullst the current CPC system is, if you can have an 'instructor' that's never spent any time behind the wheel of an HGV. Huge parts of the system being administered by people with no idea of the reality of the skills required is just part of the reason why things are going wrong.
That's it. We questioned it all obviously, and where told you didn't need to slow down using gears anymore as brakes are so good nowadays...t the current CPC system is, if you can have an 'instructor' that's never spent any time behind the wheel of an HGV. Huge parts of the system being administered by people with no idea of the reality of the skills required is just part of the reason why things are going wrong.Until your boss hasn't bothered maintaining them, then you're f
ked!powerstroke said:
I'm amazed how hard some of the modern truck drivers are on Brakes , go to the peak district and smell the brakes as the quarry wagons hurtle down long winding hills , as someone with mechanical knowledge I tend to treat brakes with respect, a good truck driver will use his gears and exhaust brake mostly , not constantly riding the brakes , maybe poor maintenance did play a part but I doubt a more experienced driver would have had the same problems !!! you only have to see how most people fly up to a junction and slam on at the last second , everyone should have to learn to drive in a morris minor or al least a car without ABS ...
A more experienced driver would almost certainly never have started work for then in the first place. It would take a hugely confident 19 year old to speak up and say that they weren't going to follow instructions on the second day at a new job. Digga said:
You let a fully laden HGV get away from you -go too fast downhill - and the brakes might struggle to give you sufficient retardation.
From what I've read the two functioning brakes were smoking by the time the truck went out of control - and he did try to shift down into a lower gear. The hill in question is 1 in 5 at the steepest bit so the timeframe between "the brakes aren't working" and "it's too fast for the exhaust brake and gears to hold it" is not going to be more than a couple of seconds.powerstroke said:
I'm amazed how hard some of the modern truck drivers are on Brakes , go to the peak district and smell the brakes as the quarry wagons hurtle down long winding hills , as someone with mechanical knowledge I tend to treat brakes with respect, a good truck driver will use his gears and exhaust brake mostly , not constantly riding the brakes , maybe poor maintenance did play a part but I doubt a more experienced driver would have had the same problems !!! you only have to see how most people fly up to a junction and slam on at the last second , everyone should have to learn to drive in a morris minor or al least a car without ABS ...
Do you always talk b
ks or is this a one off?REALIST123 said:
powerstroke said:
I'm amazed how hard some of the modern truck drivers are on Brakes , go to the peak district and smell the brakes as the quarry wagons hurtle down long winding hills , as someone with mechanical knowledge I tend to treat brakes with respect, a good truck driver will use his gears and exhaust brake mostly , not constantly riding the brakes , maybe poor maintenance did play a part but I doubt a more experienced driver would have had the same problems !!! you only have to see how most people fly up to a junction and slam on at the last second , everyone should have to learn to drive in a morris minor or al least a car without ABS ...
Do you always talk b
ks or is this a one off?Edited by powerstroke on Friday 23 December 21:13
powerstroke said:
I'd answer but I hear your village calling you home . You have a LGV licence and you are a qualified mechanic ????
As I mentioned, that hill is really steep for a surprisingly long distance, and a truck going up it fully loaded would be into the very lowest ratios; I know this because I've followed fully loaded LGVs up that hill in the past. Edited by powerstroke on Friday 23 December 21:13
Working against gravity in the opposite direction would need a similar amount of force applied to the vehicle, which would either mean going down the hill a 3mph or using the brakes to control the speed in addition to the exhaust brake.
Edited by davepoth on Monday 26th December 22:18
2 people convicted of manslaughter, in Germany a man drives through a market killing & injuring dozens & is eventually shot & killed in Italy, yet in Scotland, a driver lies about his medical history to keep his license & get a job as a bin man, falls unconscious & kills or maims half a dozen people & is given immunity from prosecution & latterly a private prosecution against him is thrown out. All lorry related incidents except one hasn't had the justice it deserved.
"The owner of a haulage company and a mechanic have been jailed after a 32-tonne truck with faulty brakes killed four people, including a four-year-old girl, when it careered down a steep hill in Bath.
Matthew Gordon, 30, and Peter Wood, 55, were each convicted of four counts of manslaughter. Gordon was sentenced to seven years and six months in prison, and Wood to five years and three months, on Friday at Bristol crown court."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/27/ba...
Poor little girl
Matthew Gordon, 30, and Peter Wood, 55, were each convicted of four counts of manslaughter. Gordon was sentenced to seven years and six months in prison, and Wood to five years and three months, on Friday at Bristol crown court."
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jan/27/ba...
Poor little girl
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