Can we talk about Sweden for a bit?

Can we talk about Sweden for a bit?

Author
Discussion

BrabusMog

20,083 posts

185 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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5ohmustang said:
Finlandia said:
Honest officer, it wasn't rape, the state/my employer forced me to have sex with the woman.

It's a win-win situation, rape stats falling to zero and sexual emergencies will become a distant memory.
How the hell do Swedes allow this to happen to their country? Is it really liberalism gone mad? Are the people pussies and don't want to stand up to their government for fear of being called right wing, racist etc?

How can the government even afford paying for the welfare?
They can't - so nobody (in our Kommun at least) gets a full rota if they work in the public sector. They end up having to take extra shifts at odd times in order to get a full pay if they want it or, like some I know, they just take a pay cut and work less hours.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Thursday 23rd February 2017
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5ohmustang said:
How the hell do Swedes allow this to happen to their country? Is it really liberalism gone mad? Are the people pussies and don't want to stand up to their government for fear of being called right wing, racist etc?

How can the government even afford paying for the welfare?
People are angry, just not angry enough, or many enough, and come election day, they still vote for the social democrats, because they will fix it, won't they, and we still live in the best country in the whole world, because that's what we are told...
Not that it really matters who you vote for, all parties bar one have an open border policy, and the one opposing the idea is silenced and kept at bay with the R card.

The healthcare, schools, infrastructure and justice system/police are all slowly falling to pieces, due to lack of funding, but on the other hand we are told that the totally uncontrolled massimmigration doesn't cost anything, so why the lack of funds in the country with the highest taxes in the world, don't ask me.


BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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From the Swedish government.....

Facts about migration and crime in Sweden

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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BlackLabel said:
From the Swedish government.....

Facts about migration and crime in Sweden
They are lying. Unbiased and independent Kaseem from Breitbart says that something was happening that he'll describe in his upcomping book, but can't talk about it just now.

And what's-his-name from Infowars says the same. So, must be true.


Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Friday 24th February 2017
quotequote all
jjlynn27 said:
BlackLabel said:
From the Swedish government.....

Facts about migration and crime in Sweden
They are lying. Unbiased and independent Kaseem from Breitbart says that something was happening that he'll describe in his upcomping book, but can't talk about it just now.

And what's-his-name from Infowars says the same. So, must be true.
Did you read it?

Apart from the very last one, I couldn't fully work out whether they were trying to support allegations that immigration is a problem or deny them smile


Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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"The causes of the problems in these areas are complex and multifaceted. To reverse the trend, more initiatives are required from all of society, at all levels."



Or you could just not let them in to cause multifaceted problems in the first place.

All society all levels, yep it's the swedes fault Mohamed throws grenades about they must try harder.

SKP555

1,114 posts

125 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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BlackLabel said:
From the Swedish government.....

Facts about migration and crime in Sweden
Wow
That could be an exercise in weasel words.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 24th February 2017
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
Did you read it?

Apart from the very last one, I couldn't fully work out whether they were trying to support allegations that immigration is a problem or deny them smile
I did read it. Reads completely different to pieces from breitbart and infowars linked here.

SKP555

1,114 posts

125 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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jjlynn27 said:
I did read it. Reads completely different to pieces from breitbart and infowars linked here.
Yes. Because as per your "joke" above the piece by the Swedish government is actually less believable than what appears on the sensationalost conspiracy theorist nutjob sites you hold in such contempt.

Randy Winkman

16,017 posts

188 months

Friday 24th February 2017
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
jjlynn27 said:
BlackLabel said:
From the Swedish government.....

Facts about migration and crime in Sweden
They are lying. Unbiased and independent Kaseem from Breitbart says that something was happening that he'll describe in his upcomping book, but can't talk about it just now.

And what's-his-name from Infowars says the same. So, must be true.
Did you read it?

Apart from the very last one, I couldn't fully work out whether they were trying to support allegations that immigration is a problem or deny them smile
The bit about Breitbart just has to be a joke.

jjlynn27

7,935 posts

108 months

Friday 24th February 2017
quotequote all
SKP555 said:
jjlynn27 said:
I did read it. Reads completely different to pieces from breitbart and infowars linked here.
Yes. Because as per your "joke" above the piece by the Swedish government is actually less believable than what appears on the sensationalost conspiracy theorist nutjob sites you hold in such contempt.
Of course it is.

Both Breitbart and Infowars know their audiences. A Jones is a marketing genius.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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I liked the bit where they said:

Swedish governmemt said:
Swedish government agencies have nothing to gain from covering up statistics and facts; they seek an open and fact-based dialogue. Sweden is an open society governed by a principle of public access to official documents. This means that members of the public, e.g. private individuals and media representatives, have the right to insight into and access to information about the activities of central and local government.
Every government in the world has covered up or twisted stats and facts in one form or the other in order to further their own agenda.

BrabusMog

20,083 posts

185 months

Friday 24th February 2017
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
I liked the bit where they said:

Swedish governmemt said:
Swedish government agencies have nothing to gain from covering up statistics and facts; they seek an open and fact-based dialogue. Sweden is an open society governed by a principle of public access to official documents. This means that members of the public, e.g. private individuals and media representatives, have the right to insight into and access to information about the activities of central and local government.
Every government in the world has covered up or twisted stats and facts in one form or the other in order to further their own agenda.
To be fair, they are quite open about most things in local papers etc and anyone can get your mobile number. Shame they aren't so open about reporting what happens in the no-go areas of most cities...

FiF

43,960 posts

250 months

Friday 24th February 2017
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Well I noticed they reported the 53 so called 'no go' areas exactly like I did, so what to make of that? Does it mean that my posting is taken as accurate by the folks on here or weasel words trying to cover up something? I neither know nor care the answer to that question. What I do know is that I have personal knowledge of two of the areas intimately, and another quite well, and still wouldn't go there if you paid me. Breitbart report on those areas seemed not too far off the mark to me, make of that what you will.

Looket

Original Poster:

688 posts

120 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
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Oh dear, seems they're getting desperate. I like it!

I've maintained for a long time that the one way to instigate change in Sweden is to spread the word and let the world know about the sheer lunacy of it all. The very foundation of the 'humanitarian superpower' is its international reputation, and once you destroy that the entire bloody thing will collapse like a house of cards. Hence this thread, for example.

Long may it (not) continue.

5ohmustang

2,755 posts

114 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
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BrabusMog said:
They can't - so nobody (in our Kommun at least) gets a full rota if they work in the public sector. They end up having to take extra shifts at odd times in order to get a full pay if they want it or, like some I know, they just take a pay cut and work less hours.
This is a disgrace. I do not believe this is just incompetence, this is by design.


Murph7355

37,649 posts

255 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
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jjlynn27 said:
I did read it. Reads completely different to pieces from breitbart and infowars linked here.
I haven't read the Breitbart/Infowars articles...but the Swedish govt one is just one long piece of bs. Trying to convince people with numbers that don't join up! Example:

Swedish Govt said:
Claim: "Refugees are behind the increase in crime, but the authorities are covering it up."

Facts: According to the Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention's Swedish Crime Survey, some 13 per cent of the population were the victim of an offence against them personally in 2015. This is an increase on preceding years, although it is roughly the same level as in 2005.
.
OK, so there has been a reasonable uplift in personal attacks? Which I think is what people have been suggesting. Tick.

Ah, but it was also bad in 2005. So what. Linking there being no immigrants then? Why pick on one year 12yrs ago? If you're going to try and make a case for things being bad without immigrants, do it. Conclusively.

Or was it just to link with later paragraphs....?

Swedish Govt said:
The Swedish National Council for Crime Prevention has conducted two studies into the representation of people from foreign backgrounds among crime suspects, the most recent in 2005. The studies show that the majority of those suspected of crimes were born in Sweden to two Swedish-born parents. The studies also show that the vast majority of people from foreign backgrounds are not suspected of any crimes.
.
So maybe this is why 2005 was referenced. Is something 12yrs ago really relevant to today? Have immigrant numbers changed at all? What about points of origin for them? nd other factors that may be of use?

Regardless...

So the majority of crime suspects (doesn't note personal attacks this time?) are Swedes. Probably no surprise as the majority of the population are Swedes. However, what do the figures look like if you normalise the data "per capita of demographic"?

I would also hope the vast majority of immigrants don't cause issues. No one seems to be suggesting every immigrant does. I have no doubt the vast majority of indigenous Swedes don't either smile

Swedish Govt said:
People from foreign backgrounds are suspected of crimes more often than people from a Swedish background. According to the most recent study, people from foreign backgrounds are 2.5 times more likely to be suspected of crimes than people born in Sweden to Swedish-born parents. In a later study, researchers at Stockholm University showed that the main difference in terms of criminal activity between immigrants and others in the population was due to differences in the socioeconomic conditions in which they grew up in Sweden. This means factors such as parents' incomes, and the social circumstances in the area in which an individual grew up.
Doesn't this contradict the earlier paragraph? Let's just assume the earlier paragraph was referring to people who actually committed them or were actually arrested and this is about those questioned (?).

There are still language translation issues here though I suspect as I have no idea what this is trying to say!

(i) it's all our fault for stereotyping immigrants as criminals?
(ii) And it's not their fault, they're poor and deprived? But earlier we noted that the vast majority are law abiding? So this cannot be that much of a factor??

Swedish Govt said:
Swedish government agencies have nothing to gain from covering up statistics and facts; they seek an open and fact-based dialogue. Sweden is an open society governed by a principle of public access to official documents. This means that members of the public, e.g. private individuals and media representatives, have the right to insight into and access to information about the activities of central and local government.
The Swedish government has EVERYTHING to gain from twisting stats. It is the one who has implemented the immigration policy. If it is failing and causing harm to indigenous Swedes, that would strike me as a problem that if nothing was done about it, and the government were blamed, could see the government out!


I love Sweden (hence me reading this thread on and off). My other half wants to go back there for a holiday (we got engaged there) with the kids. I'm normally fairly laissez faire about this sort of thing, but the Swedish government look to be trying too hard, and not doing so very well!

If they are so convinced about their policy, show the stats that demonstrate the actual criminals are no more likely (per demographic) to be immigrants as naturalised Swedes. Ideally by crime category. If I were a betting man, it seems awfully likely they cannot/will not.

rallycross

12,746 posts

236 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
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Murph7355 said:
T
If they are so convinced about their policy, show the stats that demonstrate the actual criminals are no more likely (per demographic) to be immigrants as naturalised Swedes. Ideally by crime category. If I were a betting man, it seems awfully likely they cannot/will not.
Could you summarise what you are saying?
You think there is a problem or not?

Hosenbugler

1,854 posts

101 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
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jjlynn27 said:
BlackLabel said:
From the Swedish government.....

Facts about migration and crime in Sweden
They are lying. Unbiased and independent Kaseem from Breitbart says that something was happening that he'll describe in his upcomping book, but can't talk about it just now.

And what's-his-name from Infowars says the same. So, must be true.
In the case of rape and the increase in such, they are , without doubt , if not lying, then obfuscating the issue. The Govt has been actively involved in the suppression of data concerning the huge increase in rape cases, and more significantly ,data concerning those perpetrating said rapes.

grumbledoak

31,499 posts

232 months

Saturday 25th February 2017
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
From the Swedish government.....

Facts about migration and crime in Sweden
Hold the presses, Government in "government policy is working" shock claim!

The weaselly weasel words that follow are more telling. Sad!