Can we talk about Sweden for a bit?

[irocfan]

lionelf said:

What, you really can't see how (for instance) the Catholic Church's abhorrent abuse of children in the past was 'overlooked' but nowadays in our more moral climate isn't allowed to?

so all the Catholic church did or was good for is starting wars and buggering children?

[AJS-]

But the multicultural 'clergy' overlooked Muslim grooming gangs in just about every major city in Britain for decades. Are we really so much better off?

[lionelf]

irocfan said:

lionelf said:

What, you really can't see how (for instance) the Catholic Church's abhorrent abuse of children in the past was 'overlooked' but nowadays in our more moral climate isn't allowed to?

so all the Catholic church did or was good for is starting wars and buggering children?

No, they've been adept at indoctrination, interrogation and mass slaughter throughout the last 2 thousand years. Hypocrisy looms large as well but thats small potatoes by comparison.

[The Don of Croy]

lionelf said:

No, they've been adept at indoctrination, interrogation and mass slaughter throughout the last 2 thousand years. Hypocrisy looms large as well but thats small potatoes by comparison.

Fair do's. I thought they'd done more, but you seem to know more about it.

[irocfan]

lionelf said:

irocfan said:

lionelf said:

What, you really can't see how (for instance) the Catholic Church's abhorrent abuse of children in the past was 'overlooked' but nowadays in our more moral climate isn't allowed to?

so all the Catholic church did or was good for is starting wars and buggering children?

No, they've been adept at indoctrination, interrogation and mass slaughter throughout the last 2 thousand years. Hypocrisy looms large as well but thats small potatoes by comparison.

and you don't think politics had anything to do with all this? That it was that stupid, pesky, irrational religion stuff?

[lionelf]

irocfan said:

lionelf said:

irocfan said:

lionelf said:

What, you really can't see how (for instance) the Catholic Church's abhorrent abuse of children in the past was 'overlooked' but nowadays in our more moral climate isn't allowed to?

so all the Catholic church did or was good for is starting wars and buggering children?

No, they've been adept at indoctrination, interrogation and mass slaughter throughout the last 2 thousand years. Hypocrisy looms large as well but thats small potatoes by comparison.

and you don't think politics had anything to do with all this? That it was that stupid, pesky, irrational religion stuff?

Of course it did. But so did religious belief. With the demise of which the world becomes a more moral place.

Hitchens nailed it (on many occasions): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2G5Y4dSfAk

[AJS-]

Hitchens got so much right. But he was also a very staunch defender of free speech including against the mewling multiculturalists and militant Islamists.

A lot of people seem to take on the disbelief in God part and not the other parts, which are actually a bit more awkward in the current climate.

[lionelf]

AJS- said:

Hitchens got so much right. But he was also a very staunch defender of free speech including against the mewling multiculturalists and militant Islamists.

Yes, we of the soft-left persuasion have been betrayed by the so-called liberal-left who have brought us to where we are today.

[Joey Ramone]

lionelf said:

No, they've been adept at indoctrination, interrogation and mass slaughter throughout the last 2 thousand years. Hypocrisy looms large as well but thats small potatoes by comparison.

Wot mass slaughter's that then? And don't say 'Spanish Inquisition'

[lionelf]

Joey Ramone said:

Wot mass slaughter's that then? And don't say 'Spanish Inquisition'

If you can't think of even one mass killing in the last 2 thousand years perpetrated with the backing of religious authority then I don't have the time to google it for you.

[Esseesse]

lionelf said:

What, you really can't see how (for instance) the Catholic Church's abhorrent abuse of children in the past was 'overlooked' but nowadays in our more moral climate isn't allowed to?

Of course there are still many millions of immoral acts taking place on a daily basis all over the globe (including here) but one major perpetrator of immorality is being weakened by its ever-diminishing role in society. That makes it a more moral world, albeit only slightly. The other instances you allude to are political issues and not religious.

When those associated with the Catholic Church were behaving badly, I don't think they were behaving in a 'christian' way, or even claiming they were doing these things in the name of christianity. The organisation is not the religion. People in positions of power regularly abuse their power, we see this everywhere.

Edited by Esseesse on Thursday 25th February 15:06

[Joey Ramone]

lionelf said:

If you can't think of even one mass killing in the last 2 thousand years perpetrated with the backing of religious authority then I don't have the time to google it for you.

Fair enough. But if it compares in size, viciousness and sheer inhumanity to the various, indeed innumerable instances of state sanctioned cruelty and extermination implemented by secular regimes, I'd be intrigued to know

[irocfan]

lionelf said:

Joey Ramone said:

Wot mass slaughter's that then? And don't say 'Spanish Inquisition'

If you can't think of even one mass killing in the last 2 thousand years perpetrated with the backing of religious authority then I don't have the time to google it for you.

let's look at this a different way then... being of 'no religion' has increased massively since the turn of 1900 and yet some of the greatest atrocities mankind has ever seen have occurred over this period as well (WWI, WWII, The Killing Fields) does that mean that with the rise in atheism comes a commensurate rise in atrocities since that is what your logic would seem to suggest?

[Bring on the clowns]

irocfan said:

lionelf said:

What, you really can't see how (for instance) the Catholic Church's abhorrent abuse of children in the past was 'overlooked' but nowadays in our more moral climate isn't allowed to?

so all the Catholic church did or was good for is starting wars and buggering children?

Yep, pretty much but it doesn't give it a bye for all the other ste its leaders and adherents have done. Though perhaps we should keep this and the other stuff above to a different thread and not hijack the one about the demise of Sweden as an essentially decent, largely safe northern european nation.

Edited by Bring on the clowns on Thursday 25th February 22:20

[lionelf]

irocfan said:

let's look at this a different way then... being of 'no religion' has increased massively since the turn of 1900 and yet some of the greatest atrocities mankind has ever seen have occurred over this period as well (WWI, WWII, The Killing Fields) does that mean that with the rise in atheism comes a commensurate rise in atrocities since that is what your logic would seem to suggest?

That's not what my logic suggests at all. The weapons of war have changed beyond recognition becoming a thousand-fold more destructive in the last 100 years than in the 2 millennia before together with highly efficient systems for killing prisoners en-masse (ie Auschwitz). Throw in Nuclear and other bombs, War Planes, Ships various Gases etc etc etc and it's obvious why there's a rise in atrocities. It has nothing to do with Atheism, nobody ever killed anybody in the name of Atheism.

Every tin-pot dictator worth the name now has his hands on weapons the likes of which previous aggressors could only dream of.

[The Don of Croy]

lionelf said:

What, you really can't see how (for instance) the Catholic Church's abhorrent abuse of children in the past was 'overlooked' but nowadays in our more moral climate isn't allowed to?

Of course there are still many millions of immoral acts taking place on a daily basis all over the globe (including here) but one major perpetrator of immorality is being weakened by its ever-diminishing role in society. That makes it a more moral world, albeit only slightly. The other instances you allude to are political issues and not religious.

Just quoting this nugget for posterity.

Perhaps in ten years time we'll be able to look again at this 'more moral world' and see how it is matching up. The saying 'be careful what you wish for' seems appropriate.

Any news on Sweden?

[Bring on the clowns]

What's Sweden?






Catch it while you can!

[Hugh Jarse]

Seeing as these are good for a laugh, more lonely kiddies.

[baldy1926]

Hugh Jarse said:

Seeing as these are good for a laugh, more lonely kiddies.

How old is he supposed to be.

[Hugh Jarse]

born 2003