Can we talk about Sweden for a bit?

Can we talk about Sweden for a bit?

Author
Discussion

BrabusMog

20,083 posts

185 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
BrabusMog said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
I have had a few days in Stockholm this week, have not been there in 12 or so months. A lovely city, but the number of beggars out on the street, sleeping rough was remarkable. It must be a new phenomena, because I do not remember them being there on my last trip. What is going on ?
they are everywhere nowadays, outside most supermarkets and Systembolaget. Even in really small towns like Lilla Edet.
London's changed in the same way since about 2008 though.
Yes, but that's London. We are talking the equivalent of someone being stood outside the Tilehurst Waitrose with an empty Costa cup begging for money, you really don't see begging on this scale in the UK.

iphonedyou

9,234 posts

156 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
Yes, but that's London. We are talking the equivalent of someone being stood outside the Tilehurst Waitrose with an empty Costa cup begging for money, you really don't see begging on this scale in the UK.
Agreed. On another note, I'm just back from Paris and whilst we had an absolutely delightful time, I was shocked at the homelessness and, worse, the aggressive begging and scams taking place in broad daylight. It was quite incredible. Their tactility was particularly offensive.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
iphonedyou said:
BrabusMog said:
Yes, but that's London. We are talking the equivalent of someone being stood outside the Tilehurst Waitrose with an empty Costa cup begging for money, you really don't see begging on this scale in the UK.
Agreed. On another note, I'm just back from Paris and whilst we had an absolutely delightful time, I was shocked at the homelessness and, worse, the aggressive begging and scams taking place in broad daylight. It was quite incredible. Their tactility was particularly offensive.
My sister went to Paris a few weeks ago. Not sure which area she was in, but she said said it seemed like around every 4th/5th street corner had a moderately armed police man standing on it.

xjsdriver

1,071 posts

120 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
I asked my missus about that article that was linked to earlier and she replied:

We have one called Sverige Demokraterna, and they have a few people who is really racist.. They call black people for n***** and stuff like that, and that's not acceptable. But they're really popular if you ask the people.... Sweden is a really bad country when it comes to immigrants.


My brother lives in Malmo and has a good life there, he said it was initially harder than he'd expected to find work due to being a foreigner, but in his own words "I have never been so thankful that I'm white, otherwise it would have been even harder to find work"....he pays more tax than he would do here, but nursery fees.....what nursery fees? etc etc....they have a system of social care which puts us to shame here.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
...they have a system of social care which puts us to shame here.
This is a matter of opinion.

raftom

1,196 posts

260 months

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
Randy Winkman said:
BrabusMog said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
I have had a few days in Stockholm this week, have not been there in 12 or so months. A lovely city, but the number of beggars out on the street, sleeping rough was remarkable. It must be a new phenomena, because I do not remember them being there on my last trip. What is going on ?
they are everywhere nowadays, outside most supermarkets and Systembolaget. Even in really small towns like Lilla Edet.
London's changed in the same way since about 2008 though.
Yes, but that's London. We are talking the equivalent of someone being stood outside the Tilehurst Waitrose with an empty Costa cup begging for money, you really don't see begging on this scale in the UK.
Actually I don't agree with Randy on that one.

I lived in London for most of a year in '94/95 and was down there a hell of a lot in 97/98 as my then lady friend lived in Tootingbeckistan (as she a Bajan called it).

I have been going back there on and off for at least a couple of 2-3 day visits every year since and actually perceive there to be less beggars than in the mid to late '90's

xjsdriver

1,071 posts

120 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
xjsdriver said:
...they have a system of social care which puts us to shame here.
This is a matter of opinion.
It's just a case of you get what you pay for....they pay a bit more in tax....and quite rightly get more in the way of social care - from cradle to grave (including the cost of burial).......

BrabusMog

20,083 posts

185 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
It's just a case of you get what you pay for....they pay a bit more in tax....and quite rightly get more in the way of social care - from cradle to grave (including the cost of burial).......
Flat rate circa 35% but, like other countries, you are rebated if there is a surplus. I am anythjng but a socialist, but I think that is a good policy.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
Esseesse said:
xjsdriver said:
...they have a system of social care which puts us to shame here.
This is a matter of opinion.
It's just a case of you get what you pay for....they pay a bit more in tax....and quite rightly get more in the way of social care - from cradle to grave (including the cost of burial).......
I know many Swedes who would disagree with that, myself included. My FiL died recently, his burial was definitely not free or rebated in any way, even if he had worked hard and paid his taxes all his life.

Rude-boy

22,227 posts

232 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Just because I have a weak spot for the place how is Finland doing in all this Scandinavian skulduggery?

Of all the places in the World I have ever visited I actually could quite handle a little place in Saariselka working a few months a year to keep me in tabs and ale. Been lucky enough to have made a few friends out there (ie we haven't only interacted with people who are being paid to tell us how good our st smells and how lovely the place we are in is) and whilst it is not an easy life by any stretch Ivlo isn't far away if you are desperate for civilisation.

From the conversations I have had about how things political roll over there it all seems fairly relaxed, so long as you dislike a certain country who shares a common boarder with them and never seems able to stick to it staying in the same place...


Edited by Rude-boy on Wednesday 11th March 19:57

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Rude-boy said:
Just because I have a weak spot for the place how is Finland doing in all this Scandinavian skulduggery?

Of all the places in the World I have ever visited I actually could quite handle a little place in Saariselka working a few months a year to keep me in tabs and ale. Been lucky enough to have made a few friends out there (ie we haven't only interacted with people who are being paid to tell us how good our st smells and how lovely the place we are in is) and whilst it is not an easy life by any stretch Ivlo isn't far away if you are desperate for civilisation.

From the conversations I have had about how things political roll over there it all seems fairly relaxed, so long as you dislike a certain country who shares a common boarder with them and never seems able to stick to it staying in the same place...


Edited by Rude-boy on Wednesday 11th March 19:57
Finland, as you may have noticed is very different from Scandinavia (it's not even a part of it smile), it's not without its own problems, but generally they are rather small compared to the problems of segregated towns in Sweden (immigration is a fraction of the Swedish immigration).

Life is quite relaxed in Finland, you pretty much mind your own business and let others get on with theirs. The same goes with politics, there is the never ending battle of Finnish and Swedish speaking parts of the country, you have the right and left divide and Helsinki vs. the rest of the country, but that's more like banter between old friends. As long as you're not from the big country with shady border placement and enforcement, you will be fine, language may be a problem though.

Of course it helps that you have chosen the magnificent Saariselkä as your spot, but if you need a change in scenery, I can also recommend Saimaa in the Southeast and Saaristomeri in the Southwest.



Randy Winkman

16,021 posts

188 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Rude-boy said:
BrabusMog said:
Randy Winkman said:
BrabusMog said:
QuantumTokoloshi said:
I have had a few days in Stockholm this week, have not been there in 12 or so months. A lovely city, but the number of beggars out on the street, sleeping rough was remarkable. It must be a new phenomena, because I do not remember them being there on my last trip. What is going on ?
they are everywhere nowadays, outside most supermarkets and Systembolaget. Even in really small towns like Lilla Edet.
London's changed in the same way since about 2008 though.
Yes, but that's London. We are talking the equivalent of someone being stood outside the Tilehurst Waitrose with an empty Costa cup begging for money, you really don't see begging on this scale in the UK.
Actually I don't agree with Randy on that one.

I lived in London for most of a year in '94/95 and was down there a hell of a lot in 97/98 as my then lady friend lived in Tootingbeckistan (as she a Bajan called it).

I have been going back there on and off for at least a couple of 2-3 day visits every year since and actually perceive there to be less beggars than in the mid to late '90's
I don't disagree, there were loads of people on the streets in the 80s and for a lot of the 90s. But I found it remarkably "beggar" free for a few years until about 2008 when it all started again.

iphonedyou

9,234 posts

156 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
My sister went to Paris a few weeks ago. Not sure which area she was in, but she said said it seemed like around every 4th/5th street corner had a moderately armed police man standing on it.
Everywhere. Mainly army in groups of three or four. Saw two 4x4s with army and vigipirate on the windscreen at Parc Monceau, in addition to the usual around tourist centres.

Blib

43,793 posts

196 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
iphonedyou said:
Esseesse said:
My sister went to Paris a few weeks ago. Not sure which area she was in, but she said said it seemed like around every 4th/5th street corner had a moderately armed police man standing on it.
Everywhere. Mainly army in groups of three or four. Saw two 4x4s with army and vigipirate on the windscreen at Parc Monceau, in addition to the usual around tourist centres.
I was in Paris a couple of weekends ago with Mrs B. We assumed security was high because of the recent terrorist attacks. We spent some time in the Marais, long known as the Jewish quarter. Soldiers were deployed there.

Mrs B. worked in Paris twenty years ago. She commented on the amount of people sleeping rough on the streets nowadays, compared to then.

Sir Humphrey

387 posts

122 months

Wednesday 11th March 2015
quotequote all
xjsdriver said:
It's just a case of you get what you pay for....they pay a bit more in tax....and quite rightly get more in the way of social care - from cradle to grave (including the cost of burial).......
I don't have children, yet I pay for children to go to school through taxes. I pay for the NHS through taxes even though I have private healthcare. Tell me again about how I get what I pay for?

xjsdriver

1,071 posts

120 months

Thursday 12th March 2015
quotequote all
Sir Humphrey said:
xjsdriver said:
It's just a case of you get what you pay for....they pay a bit more in tax....and quite rightly get more in the way of social care - from cradle to grave (including the cost of burial).......
I don't have children, yet I pay for children to go to school through taxes. I pay for the NHS through taxes even though I have private healthcare. Tell me again about how I get what I pay for?
You pay for the NHS paying Swedish taxes.....how does that happen? hehe You're grumbling about UK taxes aren't you? We're talking about Sweden here on this thread mate.....

Transmitter Man

4,253 posts

223 months

Thursday 12th March 2015
quotequote all
BrabusMog said:
I asked my missus about that article that was linked to earlier and she replied:

We have one called Sverige Demokraterna, and they have a few people who is really racist.. They call black people for n***** and stuff like that, and that's not acceptable. But they're really popular if you ask the people.... Sweden is a really bad country when it comes to immigrants.
Not from the immigrants point of view.

I have a Syrian friend, Mohammed the builder' who struggled to get legal status here in Cyprus for 14 years. He traveled to Sweden a couple of years ago, instant temporary housing and no restrictions on working. He really is a talented and hardworking builder.

Two years forward, met and married another Syrian refugee, kid on the way, renting his state supplied apartment and putting food on the table.

Legally recognized and paying tax.

Loves life in Sweden - other than the winters.

Phil

AJS-

15,366 posts

235 months

Thursday 12th March 2015
quotequote all
Ask any British leftist and they'll tell you this is all a small price to pay for their enviable social housing and miniscule gender pay gap.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Thursday 12th March 2015
quotequote all
Transmitter Man said:
BrabusMog said:
I asked my missus about that article that was linked to earlier and she replied:

We have one called Sverige Demokraterna, and they have a few people who is really racist.. They call black people for n***** and stuff like that, and that's not acceptable. But they're really popular if you ask the people.... Sweden is a really bad country when it comes to immigrants.
Not from the immigrants point of view.

I have a Syrian friend, Mohammed the builder' who struggled to get legal status here in Cyprus for 14 years. He traveled to Sweden a couple of years ago, instant temporary housing and no restrictions on working. He really is a talented and hardworking builder.

Two years forward, met and married another Syrian refugee, kid on the way, renting his state supplied apartment and putting food on the table.

Legally recognized and paying tax.

Loves life in Sweden - other than the winters.

Phil
Kumla. Sverige basunerar gärna ut mycket högt att man är ett välkomnande land som främjar invandring. Tyvärr är detta inte min erfarenhet. Jag flyttade hit för tio år sedan och började lära mig språket innan jag var ledig ett par år efter att jag fått min son. Sedan dess har jag hela tiden försökt att integrera mig i det här landet, med de språkkurser som krävs för att gå på universitet.
Innan jag valde mitt universitetsprogram efterforskade jag vad jag skulle studera för ämne som skulle leda till ett jobb (systemvetenskap). I början av detta år och med examen i handen började jag söka jobb. Nu nästan åtta månader senare har jag fortfarande inte ett jobb. Så för någon som har genomfört de åtgärder som krävs för att integrera sig och till och med tagit en svensk universitetsutbildning, verkar det som jag fortfarande inte är attraktiv för arbetsgivarna.
Varför är detta Sverige? Jag ser det som en mycket sorglig reflektion på Sverige och svenskarna. Förmodligen innebär det att jag själv och min familj kommer att flytta tillbaka till mitt hemland (Storbritannien) där jag med största sannolikhet kommer få ett jobb. Det kommer att beröva Sverige en välutbildad, maximal skattebetalare (min make), men även någon som Sverige har betalat för att utbilda, och som skulle kunna ge en viktig skatteintäkt, samt ett bidrag till den svenska arbetskraften.
”Besviken”
Kumla

Google translate:
Kumla. Sweden trumpeting happily out very loudly that it is a welcoming country that encourages immigration. Unfortunately, this is not my experience. I moved here ten years ago and began to learn the language before I was off a couple of years after I had my son. Since then I have always tried to integrate myself in this country, with the language courses required to attend university.
Before I chose my university programs researched what I would study the topic that would lead to a job (computer science). At the beginning of this year and with a degree in hand, I began to look for a job. Now, nearly eight months later, I still have not a job. So for anyone who has implemented the measures needed to integrate themselves and even taken a Swedish university education, it seems that I still is not attractive to employers.
Why is this Sweden? I see it as a very sad reflection on Sweden and the Swedes. Presumably this means that myself and my family will be moving back to my home country (the UK) where I will most likely get a job. It will rob Sweden a well-trained, maximum taxpayers (my husband), but also someone that Sweden has paid to educate, and which could provide an important tax revenue and a contribution to the Swedish workforce.
"Disappointed"
Kumla