Can we talk about Sweden for a bit?
Discussion
Halb said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_par...
Mixed bag.
Scandies, where do you see your people going? What will happen at the next election?
Is private enterprise stymied over there? What are the large reasons for the high GDP per capita?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_...
If the 'December agreement' survives then we'll see more of the same until 2022 regardless of who wins the next election. Either way, the left is finished. The grave they've unwittingly dug for themselves is quite impressive - both social cohesion and the rather unique consensus culture that have historically facilitated the high tax regime have been eroded beyond oblivion. The working classes are no longer Labour men but rampant Tories to put it in UK terms. Mixed bag.
Scandies, where do you see your people going? What will happen at the next election?
Is private enterprise stymied over there? What are the large reasons for the high GDP per capita?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_...
Add to that the fact that there's simply no money left to sustain the welfare state. I can't remember the exact figures but I seem to recall that to just in order to maintain the status quo in terms of rapidly crumbling welfare services, municipal income taxes would need to rise by round about 15% by 2030. I pay 30.75% where I live, and that's before state income taxes kick in. I don't think I'm exaggerating if I say that there's no f
king way people will tolerate that in this day and age. Consequently, in the next decade or so the left will be dead and buried alongside the welfare state.
Looket said:
If the 'December agreement' survives then we'll see more of the same until 2022 regardless of who wins the next election. Either way, the left is finished. The grave they've unwittingly dug for themselves is quite impressive - both social cohesion and the rather unique consensus culture that have historically facilitated the high tax regime have been eroded beyond oblivion. The working classes are no longer Labour men but rampant Tories to put it in UK terms.
Add to that the fact that there's simply no money left to sustain the welfare state. I can't remember the exact figures but I seem to recall that to just in order to maintain the status quo in terms of rapidly crumbling welfare services, municipal income taxes would need to rise by round about 15% by 2030. I pay 30.75% where I live, and that's before state income taxes kick in. I don't think I'm exaggerating if I say that there's no fking way people will tolerate that in this day and age.
Consequently, in the next decade or so the left will be dead and buried alongside the welfare state.
So does that mean pretty rigid 'austerity' measures, or just simply cutting back in some of the 'extravagances'?Add to that the fact that there's simply no money left to sustain the welfare state. I can't remember the exact figures but I seem to recall that to just in order to maintain the status quo in terms of rapidly crumbling welfare services, municipal income taxes would need to rise by round about 15% by 2030. I pay 30.75% where I live, and that's before state income taxes kick in. I don't think I'm exaggerating if I say that there's no f
king way people will tolerate that in this day and age. Consequently, in the next decade or so the left will be dead and buried alongside the welfare state.
Is this a paradigm shift in Sweden?
It's ironic how often politicians and pundits, even some posters on PH, still quote Sweden in with the other Nordic nations they like to use as exemplars of a successful(!) democratic and left wing 'social' approach to govt.
Like recent education ministers and Ofsted Inspectors quoting the Swedish education system as a reason to advocate Acadamisation. When a former lead of the Swedish equivalent said there had been no evidence of gains from increased freeing up of schools and that standards were falling. In fact it seems the system is in free fall given recent results, and increasing disruption in schools, like the one in Malmo that had to be temporarily shut after the amalgamation of two, because they couldn't guarantee the safety of students or staff.
Given the huge tax take how can the country be so dangerously low on finance? That's rhetorical, by the way.
How does "hell in a handcart" translate in Swedish?
Like recent education ministers and Ofsted Inspectors quoting the Swedish education system as a reason to advocate Acadamisation. When a former lead of the Swedish equivalent said there had been no evidence of gains from increased freeing up of schools and that standards were falling. In fact it seems the system is in free fall given recent results, and increasing disruption in schools, like the one in Malmo that had to be temporarily shut after the amalgamation of two, because they couldn't guarantee the safety of students or staff.
Given the huge tax take how can the country be so dangerously low on finance? That's rhetorical, by the way.
How does "hell in a handcart" translate in Swedish?
Halb said:
So does that mean pretty rigid 'austerity' measures, or just simply cutting back in some of the 'extravagances'?
Is this a paradigm shift in Sweden?
I would say it probably means cutting back. A lot. Is this a paradigm shift in Sweden?
I don't have a crystal ball but let me paint a picture.
Swedes have among the highest household indebtedness in Europe.
We have had a massive property bubble brewing for the past 20 years.
The economy isn't in tip-top shape to say the least.
Our public coffers are rapidly drying up.
We are massively export dependent.
We also now have a government that staunchly believes in the virtues of spend, spend, spend and zero growth.
I can see quite a few big red flags in there. The outcome will entirely depend on how hard we fall, but in my mind there's not much doubt that the welfare state as is will have no choice but to cease to exist. A paradigm shift is understating it.
Looket said:
Jobless, penniless, still living in your mum's basement and in need of some top-notch healthcare?
Not to worry, the good people of Stockholm will sort you out. The only condition is that you will have to have killed, slaughtered and beheaded your way through half of the Middle East first.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/swedens-welfare-bonanza...
http://swedenreport.org/2015/05/14/rewarding-jihad...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10488...
Poor things must be suffering from PTSD having raped and butchered all those little girls.
The Minister of Justice recently declared that companies without at least 40% women on their boards should be forcefully dissolved. I can see how they could easily change that and instead earmark said board memberships to our homecoming heroes. Jihadi John - CEO, anyone? Productivity in the work place would go through the roof!
Once again, the socialists have outdone themselves. Stellar work.
EDIT: Excuse the sources, they are the only English ones I could find.
how the hell did these lunatics get elected in the first place ? it looks like no matter what, there is serious trouble on the horizon for sweden in a number of areas .Not to worry, the good people of Stockholm will sort you out. The only condition is that you will have to have killed, slaughtered and beheaded your way through half of the Middle East first.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/swedens-welfare-bonanza...
http://swedenreport.org/2015/05/14/rewarding-jihad...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10488...
Poor things must be suffering from PTSD having raped and butchered all those little girls.
The Minister of Justice recently declared that companies without at least 40% women on their boards should be forcefully dissolved. I can see how they could easily change that and instead earmark said board memberships to our homecoming heroes. Jihadi John - CEO, anyone? Productivity in the work place would go through the roof!
Once again, the socialists have outdone themselves. Stellar work.
EDIT: Excuse the sources, they are the only English ones I could find.
Edited by Looket on Wednesday 20th May 22:42
Edited by Looket on Wednesday 20th May 22:44
Looket said:
Swedes have among the highest household indebtedness in Europe.
We have had a massive property bubble brewing for the past 20 years.
The economy isn't in tip-top shape to say the least.
Our public coffers are rapidly drying up.
We are massively export dependent.
We also now have a government that staunchly believes in the virtues of spend, spend, spend and zero growth.
I can see quite a few big red flags in there. The outcome will entirely depend on how hard we fall, but in my mind there's not much doubt that the welfare state as is will have no choice but to cease to exist. A paradigm shift is understating it.
So like the UK, 2007-2010 then?We have had a massive property bubble brewing for the past 20 years.
The economy isn't in tip-top shape to say the least.
Our public coffers are rapidly drying up.
We are massively export dependent.
We also now have a government that staunchly believes in the virtues of spend, spend, spend and zero growth.
I can see quite a few big red flags in there. The outcome will entirely depend on how hard we fall, but in my mind there's not much doubt that the welfare state as is will have no choice but to cease to exist. A paradigm shift is understating it.
IainT said:
Looket said:
We have had a massive property bubble brewing for the past 20 years.
Really? Is this just the main cities because hose prices outside of that are incredibly low!Finlandia said:
Where there are jobs and/or communications, prices are very high, where there are no jobs and/or no communications the prices are very low.
My wife's from Kristianstadt and the rural areas around there are very cheap. Even the areas surrounding Malmo are, relatively, inexpensive. Gothenberg is a different matter though!IainT said:
Finlandia said:
Where there are jobs and/or communications, prices are very high, where there are no jobs and/or no communications the prices are very low.
My wife's from Kristianstadt and the rural areas around there are very cheap. Even the areas surrounding Malmo are, relatively, inexpensive. Gothenberg is a different matter though!Finlandia said:
IainT said:
Finlandia said:
Where there are jobs and/or communications, prices are very high, where there are no jobs and/or no communications the prices are very low.
My wife's from Kristianstadt and the rural areas around there are very cheap. Even the areas surrounding Malmo are, relatively, inexpensive. Gothenberg is a different matter though!Edited by BrabusMog on Friday 22 May 14:07
Halb said:
So like the UK, 2007-2010 then?
In a way. There are similarities.Crucially for Sweden though, there's little to no room for manoeuvring. Interest rates are already in negative territory. Public finances are stretched to their limits. Half a million immigrants are forecast to arrive in the next couple of years, the crushing majority of whom will never get a job. Housing is severely lacking and short of expropriating people's second homes the answer according to the relevant minister (who by the way is Mehmet Kaplan - a fine man who has compared IS warriors to Swedish volunteers during the Winter War) is to build ludicrously expensive temporary modular houses at a cost of roughly £50m per every 1000 newcomers. Either way, the point is that with a huge black hole in the books the money has to come from somewhere else and it certainly won't come from the immigrants themselves. Little over half ever get a job, and even then contribute about half as much as a native Swede. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the equation doesn't work.
It's not like there's a couple Trident programmes to scrap either - we barely have a defence to begin with. How we're going to meet the demands of virtually open borders with a sustained welfare state I don't know. The tax rises would have to be astronomical and would annihilate the economy in and of themselves. Throw an external shock or perhaps you know, a rate hike, into the picture and it's quite clear to me that we're fairly far up the proverbial faecal river without so much as a stick for a paddle.
The welfare state is simply unsustainable in its current form, whichever way you choose to look at it. Far too many people depending on too few to provide for them. Swedish socialism has hit a brick wall, and with it the left have lost their very raison d'etre. It's a coup if there ever was one.
IainT said:
Really? Is this just the main cities because hose prices outside of that are incredibly low!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-12-10/swedish-housing-surges-to-unsafe-value-as-debt-soarsLast year apartment prices across the country increased by 13%, houses by 12%.
For more statistics if you're so inclined: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&...
I do like some of the translations.
I would say the stuff about Jente Law doesn't really exist in Norway, I've asked the wife and her family about it many of times and they laugh at the thought especially seeing as during the summer time in Norway it's just a competition between who has the biggest boat or who has the nicest weekend cabin.
Edited by NordicCrankShaft on Friday 22 May 16:38
That's sort of what I really don't understand about Sweden. My missus always says you shouldn't flaunt wealth etc, yet her folks work four days a week and spend every weekend at their Summarhus pretty much. It's a bit weird in a way that they can all be wearing Ralph Lauren but if I am wearing Lacoste or Hugo Boss apparently I am being flashy.
BrabusMog said:
That's sort of what I really don't understand about Sweden. My missus always says you shouldn't flaunt wealth etc, yet her folks work four days a week and spend every weekend at their Summarhus pretty much. It's a bit weird in a way that they can all be wearing Ralph Lauren but if I am wearing Lacoste or Hugo Boss apparently I am being flashy.
Absolutely, it get's worse here during the winter ski season, a lot of them actually go out and buy this seasons ski's/boots/clothes only to do that same the following year. In the 1 1/2 years I've lived here I have absolutely not experienced Jenteloven, the Norwegians are the definite opposite. Pretty much every Norwegian I know will think nothing of spending 7000kr on a coat to wear for being out and about in.Take for example my wife's uncle, me and her dad are currently building him a house, there is him and his wife and his 2 younger children, so explain to me why they need a 5 bedroom house with top of the range everything, a kitchen and living room so big it borders on obscene.
The whole Jenteloven I find truly disgusting anyway and the rules I'd expect to find in a country like Iran or the sort of rules ISIS live by.
rovermorris999 said:
Well, beggar me!
http://www.capx.co/external/stockholms-internation...
Just came here to post this myself. Madness.http://www.capx.co/external/stockholms-internation...
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