American Presidential candidates GoP/Dems
Discussion
chris watton said:
I had a long telephone conversation with an American colleague yesterday, he is the owner of a manufacturing company in Florida and he probed me about what I thought of the American presidential candidates. I told him that I think that, based on the news we get here in the UK/Europe, Clinton has it in the bag, as Trump is seen as an extremist joke to most of the Western media. He laughed, telling me that he thought that Trump covers the central ground, and many Americans see him as a true American, and Clinton as the crook. I was surprised to hear that, but it was also refreshing to hear a different undiluted viewpoint.
It certainly made me rethink if Clinton really does have this in the bag. Based on all of what we've been drip fed, she has. Time will tell, I guess...
If you'd phoned a random NPEer last year they would have told you Nige was heading for Number 10! It certainly made me rethink if Clinton really does have this in the bag. Based on all of what we've been drip fed, she has. Time will tell, I guess...
America is not going to elect a racist, misogynist, disingenuous conman as president. It's not going to happen. You can't say what Trump has said for the past year and then just walk it back. You can't be what he's been for 30 years and walk it back. The last time the GOP went for a really divisive extremist was when they chose Goldwater. He won the primary by miles, a yuge win. He was slaughtered in the GE and so will Trump be if they let him run. There are so many parallels with '64, even a Romney was involved!
chris watton said:
It certainly made me rethink if Clinton really does have this in the bag. Based on all of what we've been drip fed, she has. Time will tell, I guess...
Trump is currently A-B testing different attacks on Hillary to see what sticks best. When he finds something sticky he will keep pushing that button relentlessly. Will Cruz forever more be known as Lyin'Ted?Also you may have noticed he has sympathised with Bernie supporters about the 'rigged' system. If he can significantly split the Bernie vote (get 20%+ of it?) would you say she has it in the bag?
unrepentant said:
America is not going to elect a racist, misogynist, disingenuous conman as president. It's not going to happen. You can't say what Trump has said for the past year and then just walk it back. You can't be what he's been for 30 years and walk it back. The last time the GOP went for a really divisive extremist was when they chose Goldwater. He won the primary by miles, a yuge win. He was slaughtered in the GE and so will Trump be if they let him run. There are so many parallels with '64, even a Romney was involved!
I honestly don't know who will win, I just keep no more than a cursory eye on what's going on.What I do know is that I cannot take anything you post seriously, based on your input on this thread. You are clearly one of Clinton's biggest fans, and I am assuming that clouds your judgement somewhat.
chris watton said:
unrepentant said:
America is not going to elect a racist, misogynist, disingenuous conman as president. It's not going to happen. You can't say what Trump has said for the past year and then just walk it back. You can't be what he's been for 30 years and walk it back. The last time the GOP went for a really divisive extremist was when they chose Goldwater. He won the primary by miles, a yuge win. He was slaughtered in the GE and so will Trump be if they let him run. There are so many parallels with '64, even a Romney was involved!
I honestly don't know who will win, I just keep no more than a cursory eye on what's going on.What I do know is that I cannot take anything you post seriously, based on your input on this thread. You are clearly one of Clinton's biggest fans, and I am assuming that clouds your judgement somewhat.
Hello. PH's resident Yank here, again.
By no means does Trump have it "in the bag."
He won't be getting the Black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote, the young vote, the evangelical Christian vote or the loyal Democratic vote. I'm here to inform all of you there simply aren't enough old, angry, white male bigots to cancel-out the votes of all the people who are staunchly against Trump. The Archie Bunker (the American Alf Garnett) types are being overwhelmed by shifting demographics and their numbers just aren't enough to carry Trump to victory in November.
A Clinton vs. Trump race will be a landslide win for Clinton. That's why the GOP leadership are sh!tt!ng themselves right now! They may as well change their party's symbol from an elephant to a dinosaur because the Republican Party is about to go extinct.
By no means does Trump have it "in the bag."
He won't be getting the Black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote, the young vote, the evangelical Christian vote or the loyal Democratic vote. I'm here to inform all of you there simply aren't enough old, angry, white male bigots to cancel-out the votes of all the people who are staunchly against Trump. The Archie Bunker (the American Alf Garnett) types are being overwhelmed by shifting demographics and their numbers just aren't enough to carry Trump to victory in November.
A Clinton vs. Trump race will be a landslide win for Clinton. That's why the GOP leadership are sh!tt!ng themselves right now! They may as well change their party's symbol from an elephant to a dinosaur because the Republican Party is about to go extinct.
MadmanO/T People said:
Hello. PH's resident Yank here, again.
By no means does Trump have it "in the bag."
He won't be getting the Black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote, the young vote, the evangelical Christian vote or the loyal Democratic vote. I'm here to inform all of you there simply aren't enough old, angry, white male bigots to cancel-out the votes of all the people who are staunchly against Trump. The Archie Bunker (the American Alf Garnett) types are being overwhelmed by shifting demographics and their numbers just aren't enough to carry Trump to victory in November.
A Clinton vs. Trump race will be a landslide win for Clinton. That's why the GOP leadership are sh!tt!ng themselves right now! They may as well change their party's symbol from an elephant to a dinosaur because the Republican Party is about to go extinct.
Nail / HeadBy no means does Trump have it "in the bag."
He won't be getting the Black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote, the young vote, the evangelical Christian vote or the loyal Democratic vote. I'm here to inform all of you there simply aren't enough old, angry, white male bigots to cancel-out the votes of all the people who are staunchly against Trump. The Archie Bunker (the American Alf Garnett) types are being overwhelmed by shifting demographics and their numbers just aren't enough to carry Trump to victory in November.
A Clinton vs. Trump race will be a landslide win for Clinton. That's why the GOP leadership are sh!tt!ng themselves right now! They may as well change their party's symbol from an elephant to a dinosaur because the Republican Party is about to go extinct.
The GOP will break up after this debacle is done.
MadmanO/T People said:
Hello. PH's resident Yank here, again.
By no means does Trump have it "in the bag."
He won't be getting the Black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote, the young vote, the evangelical Christian vote or the loyal Democratic vote. I'm here to inform all of you there simply aren't enough old, angry, white male bigots to cancel-out the votes of all the people who are staunchly against Trump. The Archie Bunker (the American Alf Garnett) types are being overwhelmed by shifting demographics and their numbers just aren't enough to carry Trump to victory in November.
A Clinton vs. Trump race will be a landslide win for Clinton. That's why the GOP leadership are sh!tt!ng themselves right now! They may as well change their party's symbol from an elephant to a dinosaur because the Republican Party is about to go extinct.
What about:By no means does Trump have it "in the bag."
He won't be getting the Black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote, the young vote, the evangelical Christian vote or the loyal Democratic vote. I'm here to inform all of you there simply aren't enough old, angry, white male bigots to cancel-out the votes of all the people who are staunchly against Trump. The Archie Bunker (the American Alf Garnett) types are being overwhelmed by shifting demographics and their numbers just aren't enough to carry Trump to victory in November.
A Clinton vs. Trump race will be a landslide win for Clinton. That's why the GOP leadership are sh!tt!ng themselves right now! They may as well change their party's symbol from an elephant to a dinosaur because the Republican Party is about to go extinct.
Archie Bunkers
+
Mischievous scamps
??
Would that be enough to continue the show? Surely there's a goodly number of mischievous scamps who want to see what happens?
Trump's no more bonkers than Cruz, but he's better TV.
Amused. 
I looked for, 'who votes for Trump.'
Two opposing articles
Surprise! Trump demolished Hillary with Millennials in Pennsylvania
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/04/28/surprise-tru...
For Trump: Why Goldwater history will repeat itself in the fall
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/29/for-trump-why-goldw...
I looked for, 'who votes for Trump.'
Two opposing articles
Surprise! Trump demolished Hillary with Millennials in Pennsylvania
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/04/28/surprise-tru...
For Trump: Why Goldwater history will repeat itself in the fall
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/04/29/for-trump-why-goldw...
SpeckledJim said:
MadmanO/T People said:
Hello. PH's resident Yank here, again.
By no means does Trump have it "in the bag."
He won't be getting the Black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote, the young vote, the evangelical Christian vote or the loyal Democratic vote. I'm here to inform all of you there simply aren't enough old, angry, white male bigots to cancel-out the votes of all the people who are staunchly against Trump. The Archie Bunker (the American Alf Garnett) types are being overwhelmed by shifting demographics and their numbers just aren't enough to carry Trump to victory in November.
A Clinton vs. Trump race will be a landslide win for Clinton. That's why the GOP leadership are sh!tt!ng themselves right now! They may as well change their party's symbol from an elephant to a dinosaur because the Republican Party is about to go extinct.
What about:By no means does Trump have it "in the bag."
He won't be getting the Black vote, the Hispanic vote, the women's vote, the young vote, the evangelical Christian vote or the loyal Democratic vote. I'm here to inform all of you there simply aren't enough old, angry, white male bigots to cancel-out the votes of all the people who are staunchly against Trump. The Archie Bunker (the American Alf Garnett) types are being overwhelmed by shifting demographics and their numbers just aren't enough to carry Trump to victory in November.
A Clinton vs. Trump race will be a landslide win for Clinton. That's why the GOP leadership are sh!tt!ng themselves right now! They may as well change their party's symbol from an elephant to a dinosaur because the Republican Party is about to go extinct.
Archie Bunkers
+
Mischievous scamps
??
Would that be enough to continue the show? Surely there's a goodly number of mischievous scamps who want to see what happens?
Trump's no more bonkers than Cruz, but he's better TV.
If Trump gets to 1237 delegates and becomes the GOP nominee, I can guarantee the bible-thumpers will stay home on election day. They make up at least a third of the Republican's core support and they can't stand Trump because they see him as a "New York Liberal." So, if these Jesus Freaks don't go to the voting booth, not only are they not voting for president, they're also not voting for senators and representatives, either. And in some states, they'll also not be voting for governors and state assemblymen. The upshot of this is the Democrats will hold onto the White House, re-take Congress and flip a number of state houses across the country from red to blue.
No amount of "Mischievous Scamps" will change that.
I thought this was relevant to the debate.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/its-not-just-do...
He mentions a number of factors causing genuine rage on the right, and alienating them from the mainstream centre right parties that claim to represent them, but, IMO, the biggest thing he has missed off is living standards.
The Centre right in general currently has no answer to the stagnant, or even falling, living standards of the average worker in the west. In America this process is most developed, leading some academics to claim the average American hasn't had a pay rise since Reagan. It is no coincidence IMO that as a result a candidate like Trump is close to taking the Republican nomination.
We in Britain came late to the phenomenon but, in effect, it has been "supercharged" for the young as, for those who do not won their own home, living standards have been in virtually unbroken decline since 2000.
The left has its targets by which it measures "success" which are usually how much money it has redistributed and paid out to the "worthy". It would be useful if the centre-right could develop measures by which it could be judged. Real median household earnings for both the average and separately the young might be one suggestion. Until the mainstream centre-right starts both listening to its voters and putting the interests of the average citizen first the rage will only grow.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/its-not-just-do...
He mentions a number of factors causing genuine rage on the right, and alienating them from the mainstream centre right parties that claim to represent them, but, IMO, the biggest thing he has missed off is living standards.
The Centre right in general currently has no answer to the stagnant, or even falling, living standards of the average worker in the west. In America this process is most developed, leading some academics to claim the average American hasn't had a pay rise since Reagan. It is no coincidence IMO that as a result a candidate like Trump is close to taking the Republican nomination.
We in Britain came late to the phenomenon but, in effect, it has been "supercharged" for the young as, for those who do not won their own home, living standards have been in virtually unbroken decline since 2000.
The left has its targets by which it measures "success" which are usually how much money it has redistributed and paid out to the "worthy". It would be useful if the centre-right could develop measures by which it could be judged. Real median household earnings for both the average and separately the young might be one suggestion. Until the mainstream centre-right starts both listening to its voters and putting the interests of the average citizen first the rage will only grow.
Halb said:
Will there be real rage against the 1%ers and the like?
Well clearly there will be anger against bosses who take "unjustified" remuneration and the like, but there isn't usually the same attitude toward redistribution for its own sake on the right.There was a poll going around asking voters of different parties if they would support a 50p tax rate, even if it raised no extra money, for "moral" reasons and relatively few Conservative voters supported the idea.
Where the rage will be directed is against the establishment in general, which includes "Davos" man. If the policies they promote are reducing the living standard of the average worker, all the while claiming it is the only route to prosperity, then their lies will be exposed and retribution at the ballot box will follow.
Around 10-15% of the workforce have done very well out of the many policy changes and economic factors known as "globalisation". That isn't enough to win an election. The affluent old, whose benefits/entitlements have been protected, are enough to keep the centre-right with a chance at power but that will diminish in many countries over time as each generation becomes poorer than the one before.
Ultimately in too many countries the centre-right have confused corporatism with capitalism. Thatcher wasn't afraid to attack privileged interests (such as in the city in 1986) and neither should her intellectual descendants.
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