American Presidential candidates GoP/Dems

American Presidential candidates GoP/Dems

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scherzkeks

4,460 posts

133 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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I am starting to think Hillary might actually be the choice for maximum accelleration in winding down what is left of American empire. The neocon love for the Botoxed one is most interesting.

http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11141308/donald-trump-...

This interview is downright hilarious for anyone not drowning in bullst.

GavinPearson

5,715 posts

250 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Countdown said:
GavinPearson said:
he polling stations are asking you to present the same identification that you present when you pay in a check, get a prescription or buy cheap tools at Harbor freight with a credit card.
It's not difficult or onerous and whether you are voting for Bernie Sanders or Donald Trump this November you need to show identification.
If it's not "difficult and onerous"

why are some people finding it that way?
Why are the GOP using it as a way of restricting people who are likely to vote Dem?
Why even bother to implement it when voter fraud is pretty much non-existent?
Believe it or not a great number of people like the idea that if a law is passed then it gets enforced.
If you are the U.S. equivalent of the returning officer your job is to ensure that the correct people can vote and that the count is accurate.
As the parties are taking roughly half of the electorate each the last thing that they need is somebody voting twice or more. Or pretending to be somebody else.
My state is a rust belt one with two Democratic senators and seemingly alternating Democratic and Republican governors but you register to vote at the same place that you get your Driver's license. It is a perfectly fair system where I live.
In other states that is not necessarily the case. Bernie Sanders is livid that he lost Kentucky - before Superdelegates are put into the mix - and it is down to counting and he is rightfully challenging that. That's highly inconvenient for Hillary Clinton but it's about accuracy.

Countdown

39,686 posts

195 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
GavinPearson said:
Believe it or not a great number of people like the idea that if a law is passed then it gets enforced.
If you are the U.S. equivalent of the returning officer your job is to ensure that the correct people can vote and that the count is accurate.
As the parties are taking roughly half of the electorate each the last thing that they need is somebody voting twice or more. Or pretending to be somebody else.
My state is a rust belt one with two Democratic senators and seemingly alternating Democratic and Republican governors but you register to vote at the same place that you get your Driver's license. It is a perfectly fair system where I live.
In other states that is not necessarily the case. Bernie Sanders is livid that he lost Kentucky - before Superdelegates are put into the mix - and it is down to counting and he is rightfully challenging that. That's highly inconvenient for Hillary Clinton but it's about accuracy.
It could be argued that there was no need for the law in the first place. I think the stats are something like 31 votes out of several hundred million possibly being dodgy? So again there doesn't seem to be any evidence of genuine voter fraud

With regards to enfocing the law - To put it into PH-context should speeding laws be even more rigorously enforced because "speed kills" OR are speeding laws just a scam to raise cash? If it's a suspect law in the first place the electorate have a right to challenge it. That's democracy.

The Kentucky issue is not something related to voter fraud but a completely different issue isn't it it?

andymadmak

14,481 posts

269 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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some interesting stuff on voter fraud studies here
http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-14-634


summary from report said:
Based on GAO’s review of studies by academics and others and information from federal and state agencies, GAO identified various challenges in information available for estimating the incidence of in-person voter fraud that make it difficult to determine a complete picture of such fraud. First, the studies GAO reviewed identified few instances of in-person voter fraud, but contained limitations in, for example, the completeness of information sources used. Second, no single source or database captures the universe of allegations or cases of in-person voter fraud across federal, state, and local levels, in part because responsibility for addressing election fraud is shared among federal, state, and local authorities. Third, federal and state agencies vary in the extent they collect information on election fraud in general and in-person voter fraud in particular, making it difficult to estimate the incidence of in-person voter fraud.
Edited by andymadmak on Wednesday 25th May 13:07

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Not followed the detail into voting entitlement shenanigans, don't we have 5 months to sort out any " paperwork" . confused

JagLover

42,262 posts

234 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Countdown said:
It could be argued that there was no need for the law in the first place. I think the stats are something like 31 votes out of several hundred million possibly being dodgy? So again there doesn't seem to be any evidence of genuine voter fraud
To be detected someone would have to complain?

A possible scenario would be for someone to be aware someone else will not vote and so goes to vote instead of them. How would this be detected?

Clearly obtaining the ID should be inexpensive and as easy as possible, but there is nothing wrong in principle with requiring ID to vote.

Halb

Original Poster:

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Hmm, not sure on that. Require ID to have an inalienable right? ID that has to be renewed and paid for?
All seems a bit Tony Blair/Big Brother/State supreme to me.
I like wandering down to my polling station, they confirm my address and that's it.

andymadmak

14,481 posts

269 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Halb said:
Hmm, not sure on that. Require ID to have an inalienable right? ID that has to be renewed and paid for?
All seems a bit Tony Blair/Big Brother/State supreme to me.
I like wandering down to my polling station, they confirm my address and that's it.
Not all states charge for a voter ID

Anyway, if you have a read of that GAO report I linked to you will see that sensible review of the data suggests that the "its all a big conspiracy" folk may have been over egging their case somewhat.

andymadmak

14,481 posts

269 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-3637292...

Crikey, even 15% of Bernie Sanders supporters intend to vote Trump.

Is the unthinkable about to happen?
Could Hilary lose?

And if Trump did win, aside from the global reaction, how on earth would Unrepentant respond? Should we put him on suicide watch just in case? (he might be rude and abrasive, but he's ours and we should protect him! hehe )

Sam All

3,101 posts

100 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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andymadmak said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-3637292...

Crikey, even 15% of Bernie Sanders supporters intend to vote Trump.

Is the unthinkable about to happen?
Could Hilary lose?

And if Trump did win, aside from the global reaction, how on earth would Unrepentant respond? Should we put him on suicide watch just in case? (he might be rude and abrasive, but he's ours and we should protect him! hehe )
Sanders ought to ask Hilary to back out, and allow the honest man to go forward. wink

rscott

14,689 posts

190 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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andymadmak said:
Halb said:
Hmm, not sure on that. Require ID to have an inalienable right? ID that has to be renewed and paid for?
All seems a bit Tony Blair/Big Brother/State supreme to me.
I like wandering down to my polling station, they confirm my address and that's it.
Not all states charge for a voter ID

Anyway, if you have a read of that GAO report I linked to you will see that sensible review of the data suggests that the "its all a big conspiracy" folk may have been over egging their case somewhat.
Not all states, charge, but quite a few do. Are you suggesting it's acceptable to charge people for the right to vote in some states but not others?

dudleybloke

19,717 posts

185 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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Have you thought that by forcing people to have ID they are also making them more employable.

unrepentant

21,212 posts

255 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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GavinPearson said:
he polling stations are asking you to present the same identification that you present when you pay in a check, get a prescription or buy cheap tools at Harbor freight with a credit card.
Umm.. bks. I have never ever been asked to show photo ID when paying in a check, collecting a prescription or using my credit card for anything other than alcohol.

Now in fairness I've never collected a prescription for a narcotic and I don't live in the hood. So if you are carded when you collect your Norco or cash your check at the pay day loan place then things may be different for you and of course I'm happy to take your word for it. wink

Countdown

39,686 posts

195 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all

summary from report said:
Based on GAO’s review of studies by academics and others and information from federal and state agencies, GAO identified various challenges in information available for estimating the incidence of in-person voter fraud that make it difficult to determine a complete picture of such fraud. First, the studies GAO reviewed identified few instances of in-person voter fraud, but contained limitations in, for example, the completeness of information sources used. Second, no single source or database captures the universe of allegations or cases of in-person voter fraud across federal, state, and local levels, in part because responsibility for addressing election fraud is shared among federal, state, and local authorities. Third, federal and state agencies vary in the extent they collect information on election fraud in general and in-person voter fraud in particular, making it difficult to estimate the incidence of in-person voter fraud.
You could replace the words "Voter fraud" with "Aliens" and the above statement would be just as true.....

CanAm

9,114 posts

271 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
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GavinPearson

5,715 posts

250 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
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unrepentant said:
GavinPearson said:
he polling stations are asking you to present the same identification that you present when you pay in a check, get a prescription or buy cheap tools at Harbor freight with a credit card.
Umm.. bks. I have never ever been asked to show photo ID when paying in a check, collecting a prescription or using my credit card for anything other than alcohol.

Now in fairness I've never collected a prescription for a narcotic and I don't live in the hood. So if you are carded when you collect your Norco or cash your check at the pay day loan place then things may be different for you and of course I'm happy to take your word for it. wink
Perhaps in Indy they don't require ID but in areas of Michigan and Ohio they do. When you pay a check in and either ask for your balance or cash back they require ID.
If I collect a prescription for my wife they verify my address using my........ ID.
I suspect you would argue that red was blue and vice versa when you perceive that someone doesn't agree with you. However these are the facts, however inconvenient they are for you.

Countdown

39,686 posts

195 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
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rscott

14,689 posts

190 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
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Trump suspected of avoiding 10's of millions of dollars in tax - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/25/exclusi...

State Department report criticises Clinton's use of private email server (while, it seems, admitting the official facilities weren't up to the job) -
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/25/hil...

Edited by rscott on Thursday 26th May 08:56

Jockman

17,912 posts

159 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
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Wash all the dirty laundry now. Voters have 5 months to forget.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
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rscott said:
Trump suspected of avoiding 10's of millions of dollars in tax - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/25/exclusi...
Avoid, not evade?
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