The problem with Islam.
Discussion
4v6 said:
In response to the thread name, The problem with islam is a simple one:
Its b
ks. Just like all other religions.
Furthermore its totally incompatible with a free society for reasons that are glaringly obvious.
Some interpretations of Islam are incompatible with a free society. Yes.Its b
ks. Just like all other religions.Furthermore its totally incompatible with a free society for reasons that are glaringly obvious.
I do like Dawkins telling the story of Pascal Boyer - an anthrapologist doing a study of the Fang people of Cameroon who believe
..that witches have an extra internal animal-like organ that flies away at night and ruins other people's crops or poisons their blood.
It is also said that these witches sometimes assemble for huge banquets, where they devour their victims and plan future attacks.
Many will tell you that a friend of a friend actually saw witches flying over the village at night sitting on a banana leaf and throwing magical darts at various unsuspecting victims.
Boyer was explaining this to a Cambridge theologian who turned to him and said "That is what makes anthropology so fascinating and so difficult too. You have to explain how people can believe in such nonsense."
Now - however ludicrous you find "witches riding banana leaves throwing magical darts" it is a mere third division to the miraculous claims of Islam or Christianity or Judaism.
The problem is that an awful lot of people on this planet believe in a lot of tosh more ludicrous than banana leaf riding witches.
..that witches have an extra internal animal-like organ that flies away at night and ruins other people's crops or poisons their blood.
It is also said that these witches sometimes assemble for huge banquets, where they devour their victims and plan future attacks.
Many will tell you that a friend of a friend actually saw witches flying over the village at night sitting on a banana leaf and throwing magical darts at various unsuspecting victims.
Boyer was explaining this to a Cambridge theologian who turned to him and said "That is what makes anthropology so fascinating and so difficult too. You have to explain how people can believe in such nonsense."
Now - however ludicrous you find "witches riding banana leaves throwing magical darts" it is a mere third division to the miraculous claims of Islam or Christianity or Judaism.
The problem is that an awful lot of people on this planet believe in a lot of tosh more ludicrous than banana leaf riding witches.
Kawasicki said:
Some interpretations of Islam are incompatible with a free society. Yes.
The irony is that in a free society you can't tell anyone what they can or cannot believe, therefore it goes something like;"We want to worship (insert sky fairy of choice) and these are the rules laid down"
"Hang on a sec that doesn't really fit in a free society"
" if it's a free society then we can live like this, incidentally we now insist you follow the same rules"
"Well no because I don't believe in (insert sky fairy of choice) or their rules, and it is after all a free society"
"Stone the unbeliever"
Not a shot at Islam btw, check out the various "heresy" laws in the Christian faith.
That's what Popper called the paradox of tolerance. You cannot extend unlimited tolerance to the intolerant.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tolerance
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Tolerance
stitched said:
The irony is that in a free society you can't tell anyone what they can or cannot believe, therefore it goes something like;
"We want to worship (insert sky fairy of choice) and these are the rules laid down"
"Hang on a sec that doesn't really fit in a free society"
" if it's a free society then we can live like this, incidentally we now insist you follow the same rules"
"Well no because I don't believe in (insert sky fairy of choice) or their rules, and it is after all a free society"
"Stone the unbeliever"
Not a shot at Islam btw, check out the various "heresy" laws in the Christian faith.
and how many Christians try to stone you to death or behead you for being a heretic (or indeed being a witch, an idolater, not keeping the Sabbath holy etc etc)"We want to worship (insert sky fairy of choice) and these are the rules laid down"
"Hang on a sec that doesn't really fit in a free society"
" if it's a free society then we can live like this, incidentally we now insist you follow the same rules"
"Well no because I don't believe in (insert sky fairy of choice) or their rules, and it is after all a free society"
"Stone the unbeliever"
Not a shot at Islam btw, check out the various "heresy" laws in the Christian faith.
Cheese Mechanic said:
In the case of RT (I assume Russia Today?) you are, unfortunately , taking in what basically the Kremlin wants you too, and while all media is less than clean, RT is perhaps one of the much less than impartial out there.
This from a man linking to Breitbart articles. Comedy gold.scherzkeks said:
Cheese Mechanic said:
In the case of RT (I assume Russia Today?) you are, unfortunately , taking in what basically the Kremlin wants you too, and while all media is less than clean, RT is perhaps one of the much less than impartial out there.
This from a man linking to Breitbart articles. Comedy gold.Kawasicki said:
4v6 said:
In response to the thread name, The problem with islam is a simple one:
Its bks. Just like all other religions.
Furthermore its totally incompatible with a free society for reasons that are glaringly obvious.
Some interpretations of Islam are incompatible with a free society. Yes.Its b
ks. Just like all other religions.Furthermore its totally incompatible with a free society for reasons that are glaringly obvious.
There are lots wrong with the religion (same as all religions) that are in conflict with the level of knowledge and understanding we have today.
Most people hold onto religion due to fear and indoctrination.
scherzkeks said:
This from a man linking to Breitbart articles. Comedy gold.
If you were not ignorant you would see that it was not a Breitbart article at all, but a mention/link on that site to an article in the Jordan Times, part of which was quoted. Which if you read it, may help curtail your ignorance. Never mind, you carry on.
The last few days i've been watching and reading about the Holocaust, and the treatment of the jews in the years prior to...
Is anybody else concerned that Islam could be driving themselves towards a Holocaust of their own? Maybe not imminently, but if the faith keeps on going the way it is, in 20-30 years time, they may find themselves in quite a pickle. Eerily that would be 100 years post Jewish Holocaust.
Not my wishes etc but just thinking out loud really. It seems the Jews were prosecuted for much less wrongdoing (arguably none at all), and my conclusion is the general population of any country or continent will only take so much before they see red.
Is anybody else concerned that Islam could be driving themselves towards a Holocaust of their own? Maybe not imminently, but if the faith keeps on going the way it is, in 20-30 years time, they may find themselves in quite a pickle. Eerily that would be 100 years post Jewish Holocaust.
Not my wishes etc but just thinking out loud really. It seems the Jews were prosecuted for much less wrongdoing (arguably none at all), and my conclusion is the general population of any country or continent will only take so much before they see red.
danjama said:
The last few days i've been watching and reading about the Holocaust, and the treatment of the jews in the years prior to...
Is anybody else concerned that Islam could be driving themselves towards a Holocaust of their own?
Not really sure it entirely fits. If you are drawing parallels, why not also consider the similarities between fundamentalist Islam and Nazism? Then you start to see the complexity (and difference) between the two cases in point.Is anybody else concerned that Islam could be driving themselves towards a Holocaust of their own?
Digga said:
ot really sure it entirely fits. If you are drawing parallels, why not also consider the similarities between fundamentalist Islam and Nazism? Then you start to see the complexity (and difference) between the two cases in point.
Good point, and an interesting mental exercise. I'll have to think about that 
Digga said:
danjama said:
The last few days i've been watching and reading about the Holocaust, and the treatment of the jews in the years prior to...
Is anybody else concerned that Islam could be driving themselves towards a Holocaust of their own?
Not really sure it entirely fits. If you are drawing parallels, why not also consider the similarities between fundamentalist Islam and Nazism? Then you start to see the complexity (and difference) between the two cases in point.Is anybody else concerned that Islam could be driving themselves towards a Holocaust of their own?
The answer isn't funny at all
Asterix said:
It's funny that you'd think in this day and age, where all this crap has happened before, the world would be full of far more enlightened people.
The answer isn't funny at all
That's kind of my thinking. It's scary that history could repeat itself so soon. There's hundreds of books and documentaries, archive footage, documents, all proof of what the Jews went through. Millions of lives just extinguished, from days old to old age. No fault of their own. Religion is not untouchable.The answer isn't funny at all
Maybe Muslims don't learn about the Holocaust, or can't see draw the comparison.
Asterix said:
It's funny that you'd think in this day and age, where all this crap has happened before, the world would be full of far more enlightened people.
The answer isn't funny at all
I could not agree more.The answer isn't funny at all
Everything I've ever read or experienced tells me that, beyond any doubt, we're all 'equal' and all in it together, black, white and every other skin colour and tone in between, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jedi, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, Satanist, the lot of us. In all probability, we share ancestors, and without doubt the same planet and, are far better off working together than against or apart from one another.
What is happening on the planet today, in spite of centuries of evolution, is tragic.
Digga said:
What is happening on the planet today, in spite of centuries of evolution, is tragic.
It's not in spite of evolution.Evolution makes people want power. To have power over a group makes you more likely to get a lot of action, and have many babies. So we are programmed to like power. Now we can't all be the most powerful person in the world, so we fight it out, and make groups where we can fight for power over a particular group.
It is in spite of education. But then....one way to gain power is to limit others education.
Munter said:
It's not in spite of evolution.
Evolution makes people want power. To have power over a group makes you more likely to get a lot of action, and have many babies. So we are programmed to like power. Now we can't all be the most powerful person in the world, so we fight it out, and make groups where we can fight for power over a particular group.
It is in spite of education. But then....one way to gain power is to limit others education.
I should, perhaps, have said "evolution of human knowledge", but you are correct - the worst religions and regimes limit knowledge specifically to control their minions.Evolution makes people want power. To have power over a group makes you more likely to get a lot of action, and have many babies. So we are programmed to like power. Now we can't all be the most powerful person in the world, so we fight it out, and make groups where we can fight for power over a particular group.
It is in spite of education. But then....one way to gain power is to limit others education.
Digga said:
I could not agree more.
Everything I've ever read or experienced tells me that, beyond any doubt, we're all 'equal' and all in it together, black, white and every other skin colour and tone in between, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jedi, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, Satanist, the lot of us. In all probability, we share ancestors, and without doubt the same planet and, are far better off working together than against or apart from one another.
What is happening on the planet today, in spite of centuries of evolution, is tragic.
True.Everything I've ever read or experienced tells me that, beyond any doubt, we're all 'equal' and all in it together, black, white and every other skin colour and tone in between, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jedi, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, Satanist, the lot of us. In all probability, we share ancestors, and without doubt the same planet and, are far better off working together than against or apart from one another.
What is happening on the planet today, in spite of centuries of evolution, is tragic.
However, regardless of some of the things going on in the world, we are immeasurably better in that regard than at any time in history.
The very fact we find such abhorrent is evidence of this.
Justayellowbadge said:
Digga said:
I could not agree more.
Everything I've ever read or experienced tells me that, beyond any doubt, we're all 'equal' and all in it together, black, white and every other skin colour and tone in between, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jedi, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, Satanist, the lot of us. In all probability, we share ancestors, and without doubt the same planet and, are far better off working together than against or apart from one another.
What is happening on the planet today, in spite of centuries of evolution, is tragic.
True.Everything I've ever read or experienced tells me that, beyond any doubt, we're all 'equal' and all in it together, black, white and every other skin colour and tone in between, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jedi, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, Satanist, the lot of us. In all probability, we share ancestors, and without doubt the same planet and, are far better off working together than against or apart from one another.
What is happening on the planet today, in spite of centuries of evolution, is tragic.
However, regardless of some of the things going on in the world, we are immeasurably better in that regard than at any time in history.
The very fact we find such abhorrent is evidence of this.
Within the next 50 years (I'll be dead by then), there will be another world ideological war.
Asterix said:
Justayellowbadge said:
Digga said:
I could not agree more.
Everything I've ever read or experienced tells me that, beyond any doubt, we're all 'equal' and all in it together, black, white and every other skin colour and tone in between, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jedi, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, Satanist, the lot of us. In all probability, we share ancestors, and without doubt the same planet and, are far better off working together than against or apart from one another.
What is happening on the planet today, in spite of centuries of evolution, is tragic.
True.Everything I've ever read or experienced tells me that, beyond any doubt, we're all 'equal' and all in it together, black, white and every other skin colour and tone in between, atheist, agnostic, Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jedi, Jew, Muslim, Sikh, Satanist, the lot of us. In all probability, we share ancestors, and without doubt the same planet and, are far better off working together than against or apart from one another.
What is happening on the planet today, in spite of centuries of evolution, is tragic.
However, regardless of some of the things going on in the world, we are immeasurably better in that regard than at any time in history.
The very fact we find such abhorrent is evidence of this.
Within the next 50 years (I'll be dead by then), there will be another world ideological war.
They refuse to look behind them at the trail of destruction left behind by his ilk in government instead continuing further in to the quagmire.
Islam is merely taking advantage of our current weak and progressive government we have been left with. Doomed is an understatement.
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