The problem with Islam.
Discussion
Potatoes said:
You're right in a way... it seems to be more acceptible to share these bigoted opinions for some reason.
I could have a stab at the demographics behind it, but I might upset people even beyond those I intended to upset 
Groupthink must play a part in why people think particular stuff is acceptable.
Unfortunately the flipside is you also can't have an intelligent discussion about some real but subtler issues that arise out of religious & cultural differences and integration or lack of.
Potatoes said:
Interesting fact: the number 1 book bought by convicted/killed Muslim terrorist = Quran for Dummies. (CIA research)
These guys are no more Muslim than Jeremy Clarkson. Most are low level gangsters/criminals looking for a cause...
Fanatical 'religion' is mostly a flimsy dress worn over politics and psychology, just like most 'religious' wars.These guys are no more Muslim than Jeremy Clarkson. Most are low level gangsters/criminals looking for a cause...
zygalski said:
TKF said:
zygalski said:
I just found out don4l is a fully paid-up BNP member.
I heard he's not fully paid up. His last cheque bounced after his company went belly up.
k up. Yes, we can all see what you're trying to do. 
don4l said:
The problem is that there is no ultimate leader in the Muslim world.
I can remember the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland. There were religious leaders of both communities... and they spoke out publicly. They were unequivocal. The fifth commandment stated that "Thou shalt not kill."
No ifs, no buts.
There is no ultimate leader in the Christian world either. There's a leader for the Catholics, CoE, Jehovah's etc etc. There is a leader fir the Sunni and Shia Muslims though, so your example falls flat because you're comparison wasn't of equivalent things.I can remember the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland. There were religious leaders of both communities... and they spoke out publicly. They were unequivocal. The fifth commandment stated that "Thou shalt not kill."
No ifs, no buts.
trashbat said:
JensenA said:
But Muslims do seem to be different, they do not integrate into our society, they do not like our society or or it's values.
What, none of them? How many do you know?How do you feel about the integration abilities of Hasidic Jews, out of interest?
If your basis for comparison is how much you can chat to them in the pub, you're on to a loser from the start though
do you know? I'll be honest, I don't know any, and thats the problem isn't it? I lived on Bradford for 2 years, a city with a large Muslim population, and I never met one, strange isn't it? Nowhere in my posts have I said I do not like Muslims.
JensenA said:
I've never heard of any problems in the UK of Hasidic Jews demanding that the UK adopt their Laws. Never heard of any problems with Hasidic Jews and British people either. Why did you bring them up? How many Muslims
do you know? I'll be honest, I don't know any, and thats the problem isn't it? I lived on Bradford for 2 years, a city with a large Muslim population, and I never met one, strange isn't it? Nowhere in my posts have I said I do not like Muslims.
Several. IME go to any UK university and you're likely to meet & integrate with many in the course of your studies. Work in any large UK corporate, same.do you know? I'll be honest, I don't know any, and thats the problem isn't it? I lived on Bradford for 2 years, a city with a large Muslim population, and I never met one, strange isn't it? Nowhere in my posts have I said I do not like Muslims.
On the other hand, where I live now and have lived before have often been very white and very English though, where you wouldn't knowingly run into a single one. Nor anyone black, for that matter. Presumably that's not a problem.
Why do I ask about orthodox Jews? Because if you've never even met - surely you mean 'got to know' - a Muslim, chances are you haven't met an orthodox Jew either, but you're apparently not making generalisations about them. Why's that?
TheAllSeeingPie said:
JensenA said:
Why is it that if you say you are anti Islam/Muslim you are immediately classed as a racist?
You're right, it's stupid to call someone racist if the hate Muslims. You are in fact a bigot, not a racist.Bigotry apparently only applies to opinions towards some groups, and you will be the judge of which they are.
TheAllSeeingPie said:
don4l said:
The problem is that there is no ultimate leader in the Muslim world.
I can remember the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland. There were religious leaders of both communities... and they spoke out publicly. They were unequivocal. The fifth commandment stated that "Thou shalt not kill."
No ifs, no buts.
There is no ultimate leader in the Christian world either. There's a leader for the Catholics, CoE, Jehovah's etc etc. There is a leader fir the Sunni and Shia Muslims though, so your example falls flat because you're comparison wasn't of equivalent things.I can remember the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland. There were religious leaders of both communities... and they spoke out publicly. They were unequivocal. The fifth commandment stated that "Thou shalt not kill."
No ifs, no buts.
Who is the leader of the Sunni Muslims?
Who is the leader of the Shia Muslims?
Are you a Muslim? I doubt it. I suspect that you are simply taking offence on someone's else's behalf. If so, then I would suggest that you are doing them no favours at all.
I freely accept that the vast majority of Muslims are not terrorists. However, the fact that the religion has so little "structure" means that it is very easy to tarnish every Muslim with the same brush.
Furthermore, Muslims seem very reluctant to criticise any of their own.
don4l said:
Furthermore, Muslims seem very reluctant to criticise any of their own.
There is shedloads of criticism of Muslim lunatics by other Muslims but it tends to get ignored.http://news.sky.com/story/1298792/british-muslims-...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/muslim-leaders-worldw...
This ones quite good
http://www.downvids.net/the-daily-show-muslims-con...
Countdown said:
There is shedloads of criticism of Muslim lunatics by other Muslims but it tends to get ignored.
http://news.sky.com/story/1298792/british-muslims-...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/muslim-leaders-worldw...
This ones quite good
http://www.downvids.net/the-daily-show-muslims-con...
This may be the case but the general perception is that their silence on these matters is deafening.http://news.sky.com/story/1298792/british-muslims-...
http://www.globalresearch.ca/muslim-leaders-worldw...
This ones quite good
http://www.downvids.net/the-daily-show-muslims-con...
Having said that if they had to comment every time some nutter caused offence they would need an extra TV channel.
I guess they are dammed if they do and dammed if they don't.
I think the media need to do a lot more to show that amongst law abiding citizens we all want the same
don4l said:
Furthermore, Muslims seem very reluctant to criticise any of their own.
Boom there it is. Because Ahmed who runs the kitchen fitters in Berkshire doesn't do enough to criticise ISIS killing people (other Muslims, mostly) he's obviously secretly supporting them.Have you apologised for the murders that Anders Brevik did a few years back?
He's white, just like you.
He's European, just like you.
He's not a big fan of open border immigration, just like you.
He's a Christian and you choose to live in a Christian country.
In fact you are far closer to him than Ahmed is to the Paris killers.
So, your apology?
johnxjsc1985 said:
I think the media need to do a lot more to show that amongst law abiding citizens we all want the same
I'm not having a pop at you with this, but why do you/anyone need the media for this?Why isn't the default assumption that everyone is trying to quietly & peacefully get on with their own lives? Since in our life experience to date, I expect that is massively overwhelmingly the case.
Until something tangible happens to make you believe otherwise about a particular individual, why would you doubt it?
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