Finally, proof there is no God.

[mattmurdock]

Einion Yrth said:

I think I may have been happier with the jumpers.

At least they were keeping everyone warm, and possibly stylish as well.

[IainT]

Jinx said:

IainT said:

Your rather clumsy conflation of uses of 'belief' do not make your point valid unless I'm missing a subtle jest.

1. I believe in eggs. - Knowledge based belief supported by actual existence of eggs.
2. I believe in god. - Faith based belief supported by assertion that god exists.

English language has words with a duality of meaning that most of us manage to navigate with some success.

Faith is the egg - Religion is the Chicken or Snake or Fish or any of the other creatures that have grown from the egg.....
You don't have to follow chickens if you believe in the egg.

So your point is that Religion creates Faith? Believers would argue that Faith comes first.

Of course the analogy is fundamentally st given there was no first chicken or egg.

[SilverSixer]

Jinx said:

I assert

That's where you're going wrong.

[Jinx]

mattmurdock said:

In true 'chicken and egg' fashion though, you end up in a circular argument. You only believe in the egg because the Chicken or the Snake or the Fish told you there was an egg. No-one else has ever seen the egg. If you don't believe the Chicken or the Snake or the Fish, why do you believe they are telling you the truth about the egg?

But the Chickens preach it is a chicken egg, the snakes; a snake egg and the fish preach it is a fish egg. I'm preaching it is an egg.

[mattmurdock]

Jinx said:

But the Chickens preach it is a chicken egg, the snakes; a snake egg and the fish preach it is a fish egg. I'm preaching it is an egg.

Who told you it was an egg? Had to be either the snakes, the chickens or the fish. Or are you saying you decided to come up with the concept of the egg on your own? If so, I will look forward to the rise of 'Jinxism', where we can worship the almighty non-species specific bringer of life and tasty omelettes.

[Derek Smith]

Jinx said:

I used Christian as a "religion" to cover all "Jesus is the Messiah" based religions - sophistry will not add to this discussion.
Jesus said He was the Son of God. The holy trinity, much as western Catholicism holds dear to the concept, is a theoretical concept to explain Jesus "divinity" and not necessary for the Christian faith as a whole.
Your assertion of lots of Christ's with a couple merged together to form the theodicy of Constantine's holy empire has as much evidence for it as for a single Jesus - and as with all history is in the eye of the historian.
I assert that there is a fundamental difference between the OT and the NT - which whilst NT Jesus was careful not to be killed for heresy before He could spread his message (by being careful with his wording) the OT covenant was fulfilled and only the NT covenant applies (if you wish to live forever etc. )
All faith is individual - it doesn't become a problem until someone turns it into a religion.

I'm not sure that Jesus did say he was a god, or the son of one.

You assert there are two books in the bible. Yep, OK, I'll have that. The bit you quoted of mine showed that although you feel that the NT over-rides the OT, that's not what the NT says. Just the reverse in fact.

There is nothing to suggest, or even hint, at Jesus wanting to start a new religion. Nothing. His intent was to reform judaism. This he failed to do. There were many Jesus cults around later but these were judaic variations. It wasn't until the first council that the new religion came along. The NT was a creation of Constantine, or rather his minions. The OT was hacked onto it for political reasons.

I'e read a lot of non-religious based histories of the time - although not for some time now - and the consensus was that the title christ was used quite frequently, both before and after Jesus. I'm not aware of any subsequent 'revellations' by historians on the matter, but I await being reformed.

You say that faith is personal and religion is a problem. But that makes you believe that you, individually, have the truth revealed to you (if you have faith in a divine). Don't you feel that that is a wee bit conceited? Just a little.

Most of non-theists just don't believe. That's a big difference.

Further, do you get your faith through the NT? If so, then its history should make you feel concerned.

Not that it matters to me what you believe, but you did criticise a post of mine.

[Burwood]

are you guys still wasting your time debating this rubbish?

[///ajd]

Burwood. Yes, just.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/str...

Libby Towell, a spokeswoman for the Christian Legal Centre, who represented Overd, said: “The judge is effectively censoring the Bible and saying that certain verses aren't fit for public consumption.”

Whilst the judegment does seem over the top, she fails to realise the judge has a rather valid point - bits of the bible that promote bigotry are unfit for public consumption - especially by kids in schools.

[Derek Smith]

///ajd said:

Burwood. Yes, just.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/str...

Libby Towell, a spokeswoman for the Christian Legal Centre, who represented Overd, said: “The judge is effectively censoring the Bible and saying that certain verses aren't fit for public consumption.”

Whilst the judegment does seem over the top, she fails to realise the judge has a rather valid point - bits of the bible that promote bigotry are unfit for public consumption - especially by kids in schools.

Whilst there is no way to prove or disprove the existence of any of the gods, what we can prove, by way of the comments section of the Independent, is that there are many, many nutty religious bigots about.

[Burwood]

I had a relevant issue with our daughters school. secular school, well that's what they told us. Private. 7 yo comes home asking about HELL. They have teh victor up now and again (easter), Xmas which is fine but this time she decided to preach about belief and going to hell if you dont and drinking the blood of christ.

My wife is more a moderate for sure and will fib but if asked 'do i believe in god' i will tell the truth, even to my kids. When i said no my daughter said but i dont want you to go to hell.

Interesting chat with the Principal the following day, who denied it all (bks) and will 'investigate'. I don't care what your beliefs but telling 6 and 7 yo kids about hell and at RE drawing christ on a cross is out of order.

[Derek Smith]

We had mormons knocking on our door today. I mean, it's Sunday. Isn't that their big day? My wife answered the door, told them in her very polite way that neither she nor I were interested but they refused to go, actually stepping forward. I was working in my office and came down stairs and told them I did not want them to come to my house again and that I was removing any implied consent to enter my land by them or their ilk.

I told them not to go next door as there was a blind old biddy there, but they still made their way there, like good christians. I stood with my back to her doorbell. In the end they cleared off.

The irony is that had they been door to door salesman of any other product I probably would have told them off for coming on a Sunday as it was the Christ's day.

My wife said that what threw her was how smartly they were dressed. She thought they might be JHs but they didn't have the Laura Ashley clothing.

Anyone else had mormons? I mean, Jesus, they make other religions look, if not sensible, then at least less nutty.

[Timsta]

Yep. I used to work for a family of Mormons. You can spot them a mile off if you know what to look for. Alway two young lads. Black trousers, white shirts. Black name badges.

It's part of their process to be missionaries. I bet they were foreign.

[Derek Smith]

Timsta said:

Yep. I used to work for a family of Mormons. You can spot them a mile off if you know what to look for. Alway two young lads. Black trousers, white shirts. Black name badges.

It's part of their process to be missionaries. I bet they were foreign.

To a 'T'. So they looked upon me as a native - which I am - to be converted.

My wife said that they were intimidating, but she wasn't sure why.

[anonymous-user]

I once met a couple of Mormon women walking through the park on a glorious sunny day. I had a brief conversation with them out of politeness, found out one of them was from Arkansas, took their little leaflet thing and we went on our way. We've had Mormons on our doorstep a few times. It's never been confrontational, far from it, why should it be?

[Burwood]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It's good having imposing gates to stop any undesirables getting up to our front door.

[Pesty]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

Burwood said:

It's good having imposing gates to stop any undesirables getting up to our front door.

Release the hounds!

[Derek Smith]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I think that anyone who gets their way is unlikely to be confrontational. My wife told them politely that she wasn't interested. She didn't give a reason, but then she had no need to. If we get double glazing sales people around, she treats them exactly the same way.

Once permission to continue with their sales pitch was refused their only polite option was to say thank you and retire. Once they were told that a neighbour was old and blind and would be frightened by strangers coming to the door, they should have moved on to the next door.

[Burwood]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not quite lol. Just ignore

[Burwood]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not quite lol. Just ignore