Migration into UK soars

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Discussion

Claudia Skies

1,098 posts

115 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Digga said:
The problem with immigration restrictions is that it is politicians and government who get to select candidates.
The same politicians and government which can identify a "skills shortage" but lacks the ability to make sure the education system is slanted towards filling that gap.

Amongst my favourite is the essentially "flat" university tuition fees structure. If you reduce the fees for subjects you want people to study the problem will fix itself.

oyster

12,577 posts

247 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
HonestIago said:
DeanR32 said:
Mr B

Don't get me wrong, and I'm sure I've said this before. They can do whatever they want at the borders. And I don't like seeing people from overseas outside the local Wickes looking for work (although at least they're looking for some!).

I see, in my day to day coming and going, plenty of immigrants doing a fine job (whatever field that may be), and I don't think they should be denied the chance to come here to work and get along. From the lowest skilled to the highest, I don't mind them coming here an having a good go at it.

No one like to see houses full of slave workers, or the criminally minded that come here. Saying that, I don't like our own criminals much neither
Do you do agree that we should have controls to prevent those coming here that have no intention of working? Or should it just be the near free for all we have at present?
Aren't you concerned about British people claiming, who have no intention of working? You seem to be more concerned about immigrant claimants than home-grown ones.

It seems you want blanket bans on unskilled immigration simply to block a small percentage who may come here to freeload. Might be ok if we didn't already have millions of home-grown layabouts not filling vacancies.

jogon

2,971 posts

157 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
I'd like to know what demographic are leaving. If it's the highly skilled then that's the big problem for the future.
Telegraph has a bit more detail on it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration...

"He found that between 1964 and 2011 some 684,000 “highly numerate individuals” left the UK. And although a similar number of “very numerate immigrants” arrived in the UK over the same period they were dwarfed by the number of low skilled migrants also arriving."

DeanR32

1,840 posts

182 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
Yazar said:
DeanR32 said:
Yazar said:
DeanR32 said:
From the doctor in my local surgery (non EU)
Perfect example of how clueless some of you "immigrants are better than natives innit" advocates are...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/10773857/Half-...
What's clueless about the fact my local GP is bloody excellent?

And what's with the "innit" bit?
If you read what you posted, it indicates a common mistake of people such as yourself approaching the immigration debate based on a small amount of personal interactions rather than actual facts and research.

So you posted that your GP was excellent, when research and facts say that your single observation is not the true picture and we have let in many doctors from countries where standards are lower, or where a bribe would be enough to get them through a medical degree! And as result patients have actually died directly due to this.

Innit was valid as you went out of your way to state that the eastern european was attractive, as if that was somehow relevant...
The left tend to rely on emotive arguments rather than objective rationalisation.
I've read statistics that "the right" post up in this section for a while now.

So basing my opinions on my experiences rather than someone else's in a st area is the wrong thing to do?

My life is pretty good at the moment. Zero impact from immigration so far, and it seems the country is getting back on track.

Must be my rose tinted Oakleys blurring my vision again!



Yazar

1,476 posts

119 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
BoRED S2upid said:
I'd like to know what demographic are leaving. If it's the highly skilled then that's the big problem for the future.
The most well known one is UK doctors, Australia being the main destination.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26559034
http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/home/finance-and-pract...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/109953...

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Digga said:
The problem with immigration restrictions is that it is politicians and government who get to select candidates. Given how piss-poor their respective interventions are in similar roles of education and business support, I really don't like this idea.
Not really disagreeing with you, but for info... In the 1950's in Bedford, we needed people to work in the brick works. I'm not totally sure of the details but I understand that this need was recognised by the mayor here (or perhaps MP?). It was then arranged with authorities in southern Italy (who had/have a lack of work) to offer 5 year work visas in the UK to people there. Is this not how immigration should work?

DeanR32

1,840 posts

182 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Yazar said:
superkartracer said:
Nissan Skyline R32 GTR In-nit wink
That his poor wife has to spend evening in seedy pubs being leered at by drunks to pay for biggrin
Fully paid for thanks. She covers the monthly food bill so more of my money can be saved for a deposit on a house.

And who said it's a seedy pub? It's a lovely place and does a cracking three meat roast. The point is, she helps out with her small wage to make our lives better. She got off her bum and got a job, whereas plenty out there tend not to take action and whine about immigrants doing the same jobs. Granted, you'd have to do some hours to live on her wage alone, but there are women in the pub that do exactly that somehow

Yazar

1,476 posts

119 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
DeanR32 said:
and it seems the country is getting back on track.
What track is the country getting back onto? You know the UK likes to compare itself to Germany? Well the UK is a household debt based economy, whereas the Germans don't use credit cards... at all.


DeanR32 said:
My life is pretty good at the moment. Zero impact from immigration so far, and it seems the country is getting back on track.

Must be my rose tinted Oakleys blurring my vision again!
urban dictionary said:
I'm all right Jack! (originally: "fk you, Jack, I'm all right!!")

Definition: Narrow-focus, narrow-gauge pseudo-Darwinian selfishness glorified as a sensible philosophy of society and life.

Mermaid

Original Poster:

21,492 posts

170 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Digga said:
..

I am pro-immigration, but cannot see the sense in open borders. Right now people from less advantaged backgrounds and poorer nations are free to come to the UK and try to better themselves whilst, at the same time, criminals and warlords and terrorists - the sort of people and regimes they are fleeing from - also seem to be able to do likewise, with impunity.
It turns on this - controlled immigration is good for all, even for the immigrants already here.

If you enjoy having formal dinner, and there are only 10 chairs/10 dinner sets, you invite up to 10 people. The uninvited 11th and the 12th standing around and indulging in finger food tactics spoils it a bit. wink And that will annoy the wife biggrin

However, once the table extension is complete & you have located 2 more dinner sets....

Is the UK infrastructure ready for this growing influx? When we have more schools, hospitals, surgeries, housing - this country needs healing.... then reopen for business to the orderly queue at the gate that will have submitted their application extolling how they will add value to the country. Till then super glue the entry doors - for everyone's sake. wink




Edited by Mermaid on Thursday 26th February 12:10

HonestIago

1,719 posts

185 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
oyster said:
Aren't you concerned about British people claiming, who have no intention of working? You seem to be more concerned about immigrant claimants than home-grown ones.

It seems you want blanket bans on unskilled immigration simply to block a small percentage who may come here to freeload. Might be ok if we didn't already have millions of home-grown layabouts not filling vacancies.
We're discussing immigration here, so of course I am expressing more concern about immigrant claimants than our home grown feckless. That's another debate entirely.

We do NOT need unskilled immigrants. The number of them in work here is purely a function of our own perverse system of benefits and tax credits. Enough Brits would be more than able/willing to do menial/unskilled work if it was incentivised properly.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Vee8man said:
oyster said:
HonestIago said:
oyster said:
Good.

More taxpayers to help offset the ageing population.
I do hope that's sarcasm!
How do you prpose to fill current vacancies if we can't import skills?

In any case, immigration and flow of labour is as capitalistic as it gets.
Teach our own and end the dream of the Romanian criminals who pour in for the easy pickings.
Otherwise as a nation we are fked.

Apathy among even young teenagers is rife, as in some areas of the UK they see overwhelming evidence that they're unlikely to get a job driving a van/ assembly work/ factory as they have the misfortune of being born British. The greedy agencies tasked with filling these vacancies would rather tap into the endless stream of temporary workers ££££££££££
Shameful.
Really.
That's about the size of it, the U.K. is rapidly heading downwards, like a turd just flushed. We are the dustbin of Europe it seems. Go into many pubs outside of London and you will hear people talk about how England USED to be a pleasant Country to live and work But at least its a better prospect than some other European partners p*ss holes.
This is one LIB-DEM policy which I disagree with, staying in the European Community.

crankedup

25,764 posts

242 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
oyster said:
There's no difference between a skilled worker from London seeking a job in Bristol than there is the same skilled worker from Istanbul, or New York, or Bangalore, or Mogadishu, or Paris.

To want protectionism solely on the basis of nationality (or even cultural background as some on here seem to suggest) is fundamentally against the principles of a free market and indeed is more akin to communism.
Your statement represents a tiny fraction of reality facing the England. The situation is critical regarding essential infrastructure and housing, the continuance of the current policy is simply not sustainable.


Yazar

1,476 posts

119 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
DeanR32 said:
Fully paid for thanks. She covers the monthly food bill so more of my money can be saved for a deposit on a house.
Simple question for yo. on the 'doesn't affect me' front.

We don't build many houses, but have a ongoing huge rise in population with a major city amount of people coming in each year.

A large majority of these are low paid workers who thus get 'in work' benefits such as tax credits and housing benefit - i.e. they don't and probably will never pay in more than they take out.

As more 3rd world unskilled come in, more people want to live in the areas that are not st.Furthermore, as open-border immigration has made it impossible to plan schools many have been overrun and expanded too fast. So demand for any house near a decent school is significant.

As the immigration numbers are a one way bet, becoming a landlord becomes very attractive as house prices can only go one way if demand far exceeds supply. So now 1st time buyers are competing with more landlords than ever before.

Do you think all this will resulted in you having to pay more for that house you will buy, or less?

DeanR32

1,840 posts

182 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Yazar said:
DeanR32 said:
and it seems the country is getting back on track.
What track is the country getting back onto? You know the UK likes to compare itself to Germany? Well the UK is a household debt based economy, whereas the Germans don't use credit cards... at all.


DeanR32 said:
My life is pretty good at the moment. Zero impact from immigration so far, and it seems the country is getting back on track.

Must be my rose tinted Oakleys blurring my vision again!
urban dictionary said:
I'm all right Jack! (originally: "fk you, Jack, I'm all right!!")

Definition: Narrow-focus, narrow-gauge pseudo-Darwinian selfishness glorified as a sensible philosophy of society and life.
That is me alright! I've got enough to worry about, let alone anyone else thanks.

My father was an immigrant. He definately didn't get any help back in his day, and I've taken his stance on life.

964Cup

1,407 posts

236 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
HonestIago said:
We do NOT need unskilled immigrants. The number of them in work here is purely a function of our own perverse system of benefits and tax credits. Enough Brits would be more than able/willing to do menial/unskilled work if it was incentivised properly.
But I thought the problem was immigrants claiming benefits? If the current system makes it attractive for a (for example) Czech (EU citizen, with right of abode and entitlement to UK benefits) to work in Pret a Manger, why doesn't it attract Britons to the same job?

And would all those who claim that the low-paid take out more than they put in please remember that if they are "low-paid" they are by definition also employed. Which means that 1) their employer will be paying 13.8% employer's National Insurance contributions on their gross salary and 2) their labour contributes by way of productivity to VAT receipts and corporation tax receipts. VAT & employer's NIC together provide a greater share of government revenues than income tax (and in any case income tax is largely paid by the well-off).

Low paid workers (of course) also take out less than someone who is unemployed.


superkartracer

8,959 posts

221 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
DeanR32 said:
Yazar said:
superkartracer said:
Nissan Skyline R32 GTR In-nit wink
That his poor wife has to spend evening in seedy pubs being leered at by drunks to pay for biggrin
Fully paid for thanks. She covers the monthly food bill so more of my money can be saved for a deposit on a house.
So you have ALL those cars ( paid for ) yet rent as don't own a house and you think the UK is on-track? but hey you wear designer shades, great.... really impressed.

The UK is a total mess, we DONT have any money hence having to borrow billions each week to stay afloat, the importation of cheap labour is a desperate move in very desperate times.. it's a shambles.

Where is the value and real wealth creation? the type that will pay this 1.5 trillion we now owe.

superkartracer

8,959 posts

221 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
964Cup said:
HonestIago said:
We do NOT need unskilled immigrants. The number of them in work here is purely a function of our own perverse system of benefits and tax credits. Enough Brits would be more than able/willing to do menial/unskilled work if it was incentivised properly.
Low paid workers (of course) also take out less than someone who is unemployed.
unsure, work low hours ( keep it below 10k so tax free ) and you can claim for even more stuff over a none working type. But it's capped at 25k so not an issue..

Yazar

1,476 posts

119 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
DeanR32 said:
Fully paid for thanks. She covers the monthly food bill so more of my money can be saved for a deposit on a house.

And who said it's a seedy pub? It's a lovely place and does a cracking three meat roast. The point is, she helps out with her small wage to make our lives better. She got off her bum and got a job, whereas plenty out there tend not to take action and whine about immigrants doing the same jobs. Granted, you'd have to do some hours to live on her wage alone, but there are women in the pub that do exactly that somehow
Why does she only work part time? why not full time.

The migrant workers are happy to both work fulltime, you lazy brit so and so's.

Yazar

1,476 posts

119 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
Mermaid said:
It turns on this - controlled immigration is good for all, even for the immigrants already here.

If you enjoy having formal dinner, and there are only 10 chairs/10 dinner sets, you invite up to 10 people. The uninvited 11th and the 12th standing around and indulging in finger food tactics spoils it a bit. wink And that will annoy the wife biggrin

However, once the table extension is complete & you have located 2 more dinner sets....
thumbup

Hooli

32,278 posts

199 months

Thursday 26th February 2015
quotequote all
oyster said:
Good.

More taxpayers to help offset the ageing population.
& the other 90% who are the feckless scum who tend to turn up here expecting a free life?