Should we stop giving bravery medals to soldiers?
Discussion
In light of the recent VC and other awards, I've been thinking. The premise might be controversial, but bear with me on this one. Maybe a better title should be "Do we only give medals to soldiers because of our own self interest?", but the arguments for them are the same. The "we" in that is us civilians and government for the record
Now before I start, this is absolutely not a dig at servicemen at all, it's actually a dig at all of us who are not in uniform as you'll see.
Here's the thing for me, every soldier from any conflict who has won an MC, VC or similar that I've seen interviewed or read interviews of them always exhibits the same characteristics.
1) They were never brave in the stereotypical sense that we see it and never claim to have been. To a (wo)man they say that their training kicked in, they didn't really think or process being scared, they just saw what they had to do, and went and did it.
2) They are always at pains to point out that they just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and any of their mates would have done the same and could be standing there instead of them at this moment.
3) They always seem at best desperately uncomfortable with the attention they're getting and the special treatment, and at worst actually start despising those (us) who are putting them on this pedestal.
It seems to me that these (wo)men would rather just receive the acknowledgement, gratitude and respect of the people that were with them, who do their job and know what it's like i.e. the people that they care about and the people that matter, and that the rest of us should just get lost and leave them alone.
Sometimes I feel like we're giving them these honours solely to salve our consciences, to somehow justify us putting them in those situations, to justify putting further people in those situations in the future, to somehow make something good about people killing and maiming and being killed and maimed.
Receiving a bit of metal and a "well done" from some dignitary who means nothing to you and the fawning "thanks" of a whole load of people you've never met who haven't got the first clue about what you went went through seems vacuous at best and insulting at worst.
In short, I am fairly sure our input is neither needed nor wanted, unless it's directed to help those who maybe weren't so fortunate.
I say all this as someone who might have a little more insight than the average person as
- I was "in" (if you can call it that!) the army for 10 years or so via cadets and OTC etc sop have at least a small idea about army life
- I have many friends who are in the forces proper
- I have friends who were severely injured who I now see bantering on FB with their mates who picked up what was left of them in the dust and saved their lives
- I have friends who have lost colleagues
Anyway, just a few thoughts
Anyone else feel the same? Or not?
Now before I start, this is absolutely not a dig at servicemen at all, it's actually a dig at all of us who are not in uniform as you'll see.
Here's the thing for me, every soldier from any conflict who has won an MC, VC or similar that I've seen interviewed or read interviews of them always exhibits the same characteristics.
1) They were never brave in the stereotypical sense that we see it and never claim to have been. To a (wo)man they say that their training kicked in, they didn't really think or process being scared, they just saw what they had to do, and went and did it.
2) They are always at pains to point out that they just happened to be in the right place at the right time, and any of their mates would have done the same and could be standing there instead of them at this moment.
3) They always seem at best desperately uncomfortable with the attention they're getting and the special treatment, and at worst actually start despising those (us) who are putting them on this pedestal.
It seems to me that these (wo)men would rather just receive the acknowledgement, gratitude and respect of the people that were with them, who do their job and know what it's like i.e. the people that they care about and the people that matter, and that the rest of us should just get lost and leave them alone.
Sometimes I feel like we're giving them these honours solely to salve our consciences, to somehow justify us putting them in those situations, to justify putting further people in those situations in the future, to somehow make something good about people killing and maiming and being killed and maimed.
Receiving a bit of metal and a "well done" from some dignitary who means nothing to you and the fawning "thanks" of a whole load of people you've never met who haven't got the first clue about what you went went through seems vacuous at best and insulting at worst.
In short, I am fairly sure our input is neither needed nor wanted, unless it's directed to help those who maybe weren't so fortunate.
I say all this as someone who might have a little more insight than the average person as
- I was "in" (if you can call it that!) the army for 10 years or so via cadets and OTC etc sop have at least a small idea about army life
- I have many friends who are in the forces proper
- I have friends who were severely injured who I now see bantering on FB with their mates who picked up what was left of them in the dust and saved their lives
- I have friends who have lost colleagues
Anyway, just a few thoughts
Anyone else feel the same? Or not?In the US forces - you used to get a medal for crossing Northern Ireland airspace. ( War zone )
It is rumoured that you could get a medal for ironing your underpants the right way.
I believe we are far more prudent on handing out medals.
The initial recommendation for proposing an award will have come from inside the nominee's unit.
So - if they are happy with it.
trashbat said:
Why don't you look at these awards as nothing to do with the military per se, but as public encouragements for the kind of behaviour we want to see? Just like putting people in prison is meant to be a deterrent for doing wrong.
From my experience of military personnel, you'd struggle to find anyone who was doing it to win medals...JustAnotherLogin said:
Not
1) They tend to be modest in what they say
2) It doesn't just allow them to be recognised but also all servicemen feel that they are recognised
I'll go out on a limb here and say that I think they don't give a crap abut what we think and our recognition, they just want us to fund them correctly, give them the tools to do their job and not put their lives at risk unnecessarily. Recognition from someone who hasn't the first idea about what it's like is meaningless. I'd wager that recognition from their colleagues and mates means far more.1) They tend to be modest in what they say
2) It doesn't just allow them to be recognised but also all servicemen feel that they are recognised
bad company said:
Mario149 said:
From my experience of military personnel, you'd struggle to find anyone who was doing it to win medals...
I was in the RAF for nearly 4 years and don't recall winning medals even being discussed although some of the guys were awarded for work in Northern Ireland.It's fair to ask for whose benefit the medals are issued. But most medals aren't given for individual acts of derring do, but rather for sustained performance over a period or to recognise service in a particular campaign. Would you want those scrapped as well?
I reckon part of the reason for issuing VCs etc is to give other soldiers sailors and airmen something to live up to.
I reckon part of the reason for issuing VCs etc is to give other soldiers sailors and airmen something to live up to.
Mario149 said:
trashbat said:
Why don't you look at these awards as nothing to do with the military per se, but as public encouragements for the kind of behaviour we want to see? Just like putting people in prison is meant to be a deterrent for doing wrong.
From my experience of military personnel, you'd struggle to find anyone who was doing it to win medals...Foliage said:
They should get the medals, but the media shouldn't be told about it, VC is a special occasion but it should be a private thing in the military.
I think the media over play these kind of things, stories like this do sell papers.
No, I don't agree. Winning something special like a VC is something to make the whole country proud, it reminds us all of what a dangerous job our servicemen are doing. Nothing wrong with that IMO.I think the media over play these kind of things, stories like this do sell papers.
We can all be very proud of Josh Leakey although I suspect he may not appreciate the attention.
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