OXFORD 'Grooming' Serious Case Review - heads to roll?

[RobinOakapple]

hajaba123 said:

RobinOakapple said:

You will agree though that if the care homes were secure (i.e. girls could not get out) and if they were escorted to and from school etc by responsible adults, that this problem would not have arisen?

That being the case, it's really just a question of money. Not much good saying you can't lock the girls up, and you can't have the money for a minivan and driver, and then expecting this not to have happened.

Are you real???

The problem wouldn't have raisen if there weren't peado scumbags raping innocent kids. Or have I missed the point?

Not only am I real, I am realistic. I shouldn't have to lock my car or my house bit I do. Car theft and burglary wouldn't happen but for the thieving scumbags who do it.

SO yes, you have missed the point.

[Claudia Skies]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Thank goodness someone is talking sense in this thread. It seems most participants live in a dream world. The issue is, of course, that if these kinds of people aren't capable of understanding "the problem" they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of coming up with "a solution", other than good old-fashioned "secure accommodation".

If there was an easy fix I'm sure it would have been implemented a long time ago. Not an easy nut to crack.

[Mark Benson]

RobinOakapple said:

You will agree though that if the care homes were secure (i.e. girls could not get out) and if they were escorted to and from school etc by responsible adults, that this problem would not have arisen?

That being the case, it's really just a question of money. Not much good saying you can't lock the girls up, and you can't have the money for a minivan and driver, and then expecting this not to have happened.

Do you understand the distinction between care home and young offender's institution?

These children are in care through no fault of their own, why the juddering fk should we lock them up - the word to focus on is 'care', they are as free to come and go as any other child of their age.

I find it staggering you can 't grasp this simple concept.

[Fab32]

Mark Benson said:

RobinOakapple said:

You will agree though that if the care homes were secure (i.e. girls could not get out) and if they were escorted to and from school etc by responsible adults, that this problem would not have arisen?

That being the case, it's really just a question of money. Not much good saying you can't lock the girls up, and you can't have the money for a minivan and driver, and then expecting this not to have happened.

Do you understand the distinction between care home and young offender's institution?

These children are in care through no fault of their own, why the juddering fk should we lock them up - the word to focus on is 'care', they are as free to come and go as any other child of their age.

I find it staggering you can 't grasp this simple concept.

Do you?

Local Authority Secure Children's Homes hold young offenders and children on Secure Care Orders and they both have to live by the same routine.

[rover 623gsi]

Foliage said:

Ive just read the guardian article, I feel like im gonna both puke and cry, how can people be so cruel and im not talking about the men who commited the crime but the officials who blamed the children

Apparently being a precocious teen means that its your fault for being groomed, drugged, raped & tortured..

Also teens being given contraceptives is over sexualising them....

the thing that gets me is that report after report into these abuse gangs (and the 'celebrity' peados) is that so many victims DID report the abuse to the powers-that-be but were ignored, dismissed, not believed. When all this stuff started getting into the mainstream there were so many comments about 'why didn't they say anything back then' - but it turns out that all along they DID!

It's mind-bogglingly depressing at how so much of The Establishment kept quiet in order to protect each other and themselves. The people who covered up all this are just as bad as the scum that carried it out.

[Fab32]

This article

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-31698154

captures some of the issues within certain sections of the community and gives an insight into perhaps why they behave the do towards young girls.

[HIS LM]

"The problem could be greatly reduced by those in a position of responsibility acknowledging that a certain demographic seems to think that abusing vulnerable young girls is acceptable in 21st century Britain.
Once the police and social services allow fear of being accused of racism to stop them investigating paedophilia then I'd say their priorities are seriously screwed.

The girls did nothing wrong. The people tasked with protecting them fked up royally and have tried to avoid taking responsibility ever since"

This guy is spot on but nobody wants to admit it

[don4l]

"One victim said: 'I turned up at a police station, blood all over my body. They dismissed me as being a nuisance'."

Similar stories have been heard from Rochdale.

How can this happen? Don't the police have a duty to investigate when a complaint is made?

[johnxjsc1985]

don4l said:

"One victim said: 'I turned up at a police station, blood all over my body. They dismissed me as being a nuisance'."

Similar stories have been heard from Rochdale.

How can this happen? Don't the police have a duty to investigate when a complaint is made?

Here is the thing 20 years ago if you saw a young girl that looked distressed you would without hesitation go and see if she needed help/ Now how many would think twice or even three times before acting or otherwise.
The natural human reaction is to stop and help but that emotion, reaction has almost be driven out of us .

[fido]

johnxjsc1985 said:

The natural human reaction is to stop and help but that emotion, reaction has almost be driven out of us .

That's understandable. A few years ago I saw some very young children playing on a busy roundabout off a dual-carriageway. No one stopped to warn them off. It looked insanely uncaring but I know what everyone else was thinking - "no way am I getting out of the car to deal with someone elses kids / obviously the parents don't care / what if they think I'm a paedo or something etc." And if the police / social services don't take it seriously then there's very little chance that Joe Public will get involved.

[johnxjsc1985]

fido said:

That's understandable. A few years ago I saw some very young children playing on a busy roundabout off a dual-carriageway. No one stopped to warn them off. It looked insanely uncaring but I know what everyone else was thinking - "no way am I getting out of the car to deal with someone elses kids / obviously the parents don't care / what if they think I'm a paedo or something etc." And if the police / social services don't take it seriously then there's very little chance that Joe Public will get involved.

Its true we have all been made to feel guilty about everything these days.

[carinaman]

Police officer Sharon Girling on TWT 22.00 News on Radio 4 'A lot of the people in police stations now are Civilians and not police officers and don't know their responsibilities'?

[johnxjsc1985]

carinaman said:

Police officer Sharon Girling on TWT 22.00 News on Radio 4 'A lot of the people in police stations now are Civilians and not police officers and don't know their responsibilities'?

the question then is this, " is the Police force no longer fit for purpose"?

[eldar]

johnxjsc1985 said:

the question then is this, " is the Police force no longer fit for purpose"?

A good question. The answer, I think is yes, they are fit for purpose, but less so as time passes. The problem is they are badly led, and that leadership is getting worse.

[carinaman]

johnxjsc1985 said:

The question then is this, " is the Police force no longer fit for purpose"?

There are a few seriously professionally incurious police officers out there. You can lead a horse to water...

[Esseesse]

To me the police seem quite politicised, influenced by politicians. I thought our setup was designed specifically to avoid this. This is one way in which IMO the police are less fit for purpose.

[V8 Fettler]

dandarez said:

To be published tomorrow morning 11 am. Damning apparently.

So, just like Rotherham, systematic failure after failure. What will happen here in Oxford? Who will resign?

The Council Chief Exec Joanna Simons has at last decided to go, after many calls to step down, the boss of Oxford CC saying the her Chief Exec's job is not needed anymore, so she won't be replaced (why was it needed in the first place then?) ...and she's getting a tidy pay off in the region of 600 grand!

Thames Valley Police Chief Constable, Sara Thornton, who held the reins while all this went on. What's happening to her?
She's decided to stand down too after 14 years here. She's leaving 'with an heavy heart'. Off to her new role in a few weeks time to become Chair of the National Police Chiefs' Council (a newly created association replacing the old ACPO).

Someone round here said this week, how widespread is all this grooming?

One answer was 'If you think it's not happening where you are, you're not looking!'

Unbelievable. What have we sunk to?

Retired Det Ch Insp Simon Morton reported that CSE was in all police areas, Thornton states that it's an issue right across the country. I'm not certain how they worked that out when the Serious Case Review into CSE in Oxford states:

Oxford CSE Review said:

Assessing the scale of CSE is a very difficult task and there is no nationally agreed means of doing this.

[carinaman]

Diversion and smear. I've seen the police do it myself.

Cameron's knee jerk reaction is coming in for some stick by the press today. He's a Common Purpose drone?

[williamp]

Esseesse said:

To me the police seem quite politicised, influenced by politicians. I thought our setup was designed specifically to avoid this. This is one way in which IMO the police are less fit for purpose.

To me the police seem to be very left wing, and aligned to labour. Always thought Blair inviting the ACPO to number 10 was questionable. But back on topic. If the civilian staff on desk duty don't know their job role, that's a training issue. Not fit for purpose.

[RobinOakapple]

Mark Benson said:

RobinOakapple said:

You will agree though that if the care homes were secure (i.e. girls could not get out) and if they were escorted to and from school etc by responsible adults, that this problem would not have arisen?

That being the case, it's really just a question of money. Not much good saying you can't lock the girls up, and you can't have the money for a minivan and driver, and then expecting this not to have happened.

Do you understand the distinction between care home and young offender's institution?

These children are in care through no fault of their own, why the juddering fk should we lock them up - the word to focus on is 'care', they are as free to come and go as any other child of their age.

I find it staggering you can 't grasp this simple concept.

It's a shame when people like you have to resort to expressing yourself in that way, it distracts from the discussion.

Anyway, you are complaining about the problem, and I am looking at solutions. You are saying, in effect, that things should not be as they are, and I agree with you, if that isn't already clear.

But agreeing that things should not be as they are doesn't even start to address the problem. It's already common ground, I hope, that what we have here are a vulnerable group of people who don't want to engage with those people who could protect them if they co-operated. They have reached the age where they feel entitled and able to make their own decisions and act on them, even though society disagrees.

So what is your solution? And please try to make it actually workable...