HS2, whats the current status ?
Discussion
robinessex said:
That's weird. We have one forum running on PH that advocates that millions of self driven cars will soon be safey let loose on our roads, with GPS and other stuff, and they are never going to bump into each other or run pedestrains over. And now here, we have trains running on tracks that need a light on a stick to make sure they don't hit the one in front. I wonder which camp is correct ? Think I'll go take the dog for a walk, and pop into the pub for a beer.
Both are correct. The cars will use GPS so they know where they are and can work out where to go. A train can go forward or back so this is less useful. Autonomous cars then use a whole range of sensors to look around them to detect people, other cars etc and avoid them. These are relatively short range (hundreds of metres max) and the car can stop/avoid well within the range of them. To have similar sensors usefully in train they'd have to have a range of several miles, with line of sight. This doesn't exist in the UK at ground level. As a result the train could never be sure the line is clear and would never move.In reality, autonomous trains do exist. The DLR and many metro/tube systems are autonomous, however these are purpose built, or took many years to retro fit. To do so will require modifying the trains and signals. These systems don't use GPS and also operate at much lower speeds than mainline trains.
robinessex said:
That's weird. We have one forum running on PH that advocates that millions of self driven cars will soon be safey let loose on our roads, with GPS and other stuff, and they are never going to bump into each other or run pedestrains over. And now here, we have trains running on tracks that need a light on a stick to make sure they don't hit the one in front. I wonder which camp is correct ? Think I'll go take the dog for a walk, and pop into the pub for a beer.
You may have noticed that there are one hell of a lot of lights on sticks that regulate road traffic too, and will continue to do so with driverless cars 
CaptainSlow said:
Well, the latest is that there's a risk of trains coming off the track unless they run at speeds lower than the existing trains. This £50Bn white elephant is going to get more expensive.
White elephant seems like an understatement when talking about HS2, total f
king disaster would be nearer the mark.HS2 is a white elephant vanity project of immense stupidity.
1) Every high speed service in the world moves wealth from the periphery to the centre. HS2 will make the North poorer.
2) Every high speed rail service in the world is a bottomless money pit. Victorian solutions are no longer relevant. HS2 will be massively subsidised for ever.
3) HS2 massively redistributes wealth. From the poor to the rich,
4) Concurrent vwith HS2 the West Coast mainline is being very sharply cut back, effectively cutting off cities like Coventry, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Stoke etc.
5) The business model for HS2 said that businessmen don't work on trains. An obvious lie.
6) UK has vastly more manhours and productivity lost due to underinvestment in roads. This urgently needs fixing.
7) Broadband, home working, virtual offices etc are rapidly replacing the physical movement of people. We need to invest more in broadband, not trains.
8) There is no West Coast capacity problem, just bad government micro management. Longer trains would fix any problem.
9) HS2 model is 14 trains per hour in both directions rising to 18, which is 36 trains an hour, one every 100 seconds. Nobody else in the world has tried this. It looks like a huge accident waiting to happen. And it creates a huge corridor of noise pollution down the length of England.
10) HS1 our first high speed line, runs at 30% less than projected capacity. HS2 is based on similar ridiculously overoptimistic models.
11) As a rough rule of thumb HS2 will cost everyone in Britain £1,000 each to build. With ongoing costs for ever.
1) Every high speed service in the world moves wealth from the periphery to the centre. HS2 will make the North poorer.
2) Every high speed rail service in the world is a bottomless money pit. Victorian solutions are no longer relevant. HS2 will be massively subsidised for ever.
3) HS2 massively redistributes wealth. From the poor to the rich,
4) Concurrent vwith HS2 the West Coast mainline is being very sharply cut back, effectively cutting off cities like Coventry, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Stoke etc.
5) The business model for HS2 said that businessmen don't work on trains. An obvious lie.
6) UK has vastly more manhours and productivity lost due to underinvestment in roads. This urgently needs fixing.
7) Broadband, home working, virtual offices etc are rapidly replacing the physical movement of people. We need to invest more in broadband, not trains.
8) There is no West Coast capacity problem, just bad government micro management. Longer trains would fix any problem.
9) HS2 model is 14 trains per hour in both directions rising to 18, which is 36 trains an hour, one every 100 seconds. Nobody else in the world has tried this. It looks like a huge accident waiting to happen. And it creates a huge corridor of noise pollution down the length of England.
10) HS1 our first high speed line, runs at 30% less than projected capacity. HS2 is based on similar ridiculously overoptimistic models.
11) As a rough rule of thumb HS2 will cost everyone in Britain £1,000 each to build. With ongoing costs for ever.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not necessary. I have travelled on commuter trains into Euston. Sometimes it was a crammed 3 carriage train, sometimes a crammed 4, you could almost hear the sigh as the small train appeared in view. Sometimes they were longer double trains 2x3 carriages and sometimes 2x4 carriages.You don't need to extend any platforms for longer commuter trains. Although if you are only thinking about intercity trains, they do not need to be longer and don't stop at small stations anyway.
Adam Ansel said:
HS2 is a white elephant vanity project of immense stupidity.
1) Every high speed service in the world moves wealth from the periphery to the centre. HS2 will make the North poorer.
2) Every high speed rail service in the world is a bottomless money pit. Victorian solutions are no longer relevant. HS2 will be massively subsidised for ever.
3) HS2 massively redistributes wealth. From the poor to the rich,
4) Concurrent vwith HS2 the West Coast mainline is being very sharply cut back, effectively cutting off cities like Coventry, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Stoke etc.
5) The business model for HS2 said that businessmen don't work on trains. An obvious lie.
6) UK has vastly more manhours and productivity lost due to underinvestment in roads. This urgently needs fixing.
7) Broadband, home working, virtual offices etc are rapidly replacing the physical movement of people. We need to invest more in broadband, not trains.
8) There is no West Coast capacity problem, just bad government micro management. Longer trains would fix any problem.
9) HS2 model is 14 trains per hour in both directions rising to 18, which is 36 trains an hour, one every 100 seconds. Nobody else in the world has tried this. It looks like a huge accident waiting to happen. And it creates a huge corridor of noise pollution down the length of England.
10) HS1 our first high speed line, runs at 30% less than projected capacity. HS2 is based on similar ridiculously overoptimistic models.
11) As a rough rule of thumb HS2 will cost everyone in Britain £1,000 each to build. With ongoing costs for ever.
Agree with all that.1) Every high speed service in the world moves wealth from the periphery to the centre. HS2 will make the North poorer.
2) Every high speed rail service in the world is a bottomless money pit. Victorian solutions are no longer relevant. HS2 will be massively subsidised for ever.
3) HS2 massively redistributes wealth. From the poor to the rich,
4) Concurrent vwith HS2 the West Coast mainline is being very sharply cut back, effectively cutting off cities like Coventry, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Stoke etc.
5) The business model for HS2 said that businessmen don't work on trains. An obvious lie.
6) UK has vastly more manhours and productivity lost due to underinvestment in roads. This urgently needs fixing.
7) Broadband, home working, virtual offices etc are rapidly replacing the physical movement of people. We need to invest more in broadband, not trains.
8) There is no West Coast capacity problem, just bad government micro management. Longer trains would fix any problem.
9) HS2 model is 14 trains per hour in both directions rising to 18, which is 36 trains an hour, one every 100 seconds. Nobody else in the world has tried this. It looks like a huge accident waiting to happen. And it creates a huge corridor of noise pollution down the length of England.
10) HS1 our first high speed line, runs at 30% less than projected capacity. HS2 is based on similar ridiculously overoptimistic models.
11) As a rough rule of thumb HS2 will cost everyone in Britain £1,000 each to build. With ongoing costs for ever.
I've often wondered how much easier commuting would be in the South East / and how more productive businesses would be if a peripheral rail link around London had been built with/ alongside / on the M25 ... a rail service which could connect all the 4 London airports / towns near them would massively reduce orbital M25 / car congestion at rush hour.
... there just isn't any decent public transport to connect around London , rather than solely in/out of London.
HS2 just does not stack up on any normal economic measure / just isn't needed .
FourWheelDrift said:
Not necessary. I have travelled on commuter trains into Euston. Sometimes it was a crammed 3 carriage train, ssometimes a crammed 4, you could almost hear the sigh as the small train appeared in view. Sometimes they were longer double trains 2x3 carriages and sometimes 2x4 carriages.
You don't need to extend any platforms for longer commuter trains. Although if you are only thinking about intercity trains, they do not need to be longer and don't stop at small stations anyway.
Commuter services into Euston are normally eight or twelve carriages (five on the Overground). Can't think of anything inbound that runs as a four during peak hours in normal operation. Twelves tend to be the longer distance stuff, with eights doing the run in from Tring and out to MK. I think most of the stations south of Northampton can take twelves carriages, with the possible exception of some of the platforms at Bushey.You don't need to extend any platforms for longer commuter trains. Although if you are only thinking about intercity trains, they do not need to be longer and don't stop at small stations anyway.
What's noticabele as a daily commuter on that stretch is just how much disruption even a small issue can cause. The "new" London Midland 319s have been horrifically unreliable, which causes all sorts of knock-on effects, mostly units and drivers displaced. I think people are under the illusion there's this pool of spare drivers, conductors and carriages just parked up waiting. What's equally noticeable is just how rigid people are in their train choices, and just how herd like things become in the event of even a small disruption. I do wonder if there's any market for drop in business lounges at mainline stations? Not in the sense of a VIP lounge, more a shared space where you can decamp and work in the event of disruptions, rather than simply waiting on the station. I'm lucky in the sense my office is (almost literally) on top of the station, so in the event of major disruption I can just go back and begrudgingly do a bit more work. The amount of lost hours spent due to people dwelling on stations must be considerable.
hornet said:
FourWheelDrift said:
Not necessary. I have travelled on commuter trains into Euston. Sometimes it was a crammed 3 carriage train, ssometimes a crammed 4, you could almost hear the sigh as the small train appeared in view. Sometimes they were longer double trains 2x3 carriages and sometimes 2x4 carriages.
You don't need to extend any platforms for longer commuter trains. Although if you are only thinking about intercity trains, they do not need to be longer and don't stop at small stations anyway.
Commuter services into Euston are normally eight or twelve carriages (five on the Overground). Can't think of anything inbound that runs as a four during peak hours in normal operation. Twelves tend to be the longer distance stuff, with eights doing the run in from Tring and out to MK. I think most of the stations south of Northampton can take twelves carriages, with the possible exception of some of the platforms at Bushey.You don't need to extend any platforms for longer commuter trains. Although if you are only thinking about intercity trains, they do not need to be longer and don't stop at small stations anyway.
What do the rail fans think of this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advic...
Alternative route for HS2 avoiding drilling through the Chilterns.
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advic...
Alternative route for HS2 avoiding drilling through the Chilterns.
Talksteer said:
What do the rail fans think of this:
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advic...
Alternative route for HS2 avoiding drilling through the Chilterns.
But the Government is pressing ahead – announcing last week that its line will be built as far as Crewe by 2027. The Department for Transport said: “The case for HS2 is crystal clear. It is crucial we press ahead on time and budget, and we remain on track to start construction in 2017.”http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advic...
Alternative route for HS2 avoiding drilling through the Chilterns.
So it's a done deal then? As for 'crystal clear', this is government speak for 'we're not prepaired to listen to any opposition'
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