HS2, whats the current status ?

[robinessex]

HS2 has unrealistic timetable, says National Audit Office

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36641720

The HS2 high-speed rail project has an "unrealistic timetable" and faces major cost pressures, a report by the National Audit Office has said.
The £56bn programme has too ambitious a schedule and rising costs could mean that not all its intended benefits are delivered, the NAO said.
The NAO said the 2026 target opening date for the first phase was "at risk, despite good progress".
But HS2 Ltd said it was confident that it could achieve its objectives.

Scrap it now.

[anonymous-user]

robinessex said:

Scrap it now.

Say's the guy from Essex

[MarshPhantom]

speedyguy said:

robinessex said:

Scrap it now.

Say's the guy from Essex

If you need to get to London faster you should move a bit closer.

[FourWheelDrift]

speedyguy said:

robinessex said:

Scrap it now.

Say's the guy from Essex

Makes him unbiased then.

[MarshPhantom]

speedyguy said:

robinessex said:

Scrap it now.

Say's the guy from Essex

Says the guy who's hometown isn't going to be destroyed by HS2.

[Blue62]

I reckon it's dead, Cameron was one of the biggest supporters and tellingly Boris and Osborne abstained from a vote on financing the project last year, leaving the way clear to scrap it if one of them took office.

If you really want to help northern economies (and the referendum result surely highlights this as an urgent priority), then you would link Liverpool and Leeds with a fast link, moving up to Newcastle in time. Why a country our size needs a train that will do 240mph to shave 20 minutes off a trip to Birmingham from London is anyone's guess, but mine is that they want Brum to become a suburb of the smoke. Massive folly.

[Camoradi]

Breaking News, as the BBC would say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agFWob0E7ns

[robinessex]

speedyguy said:

robinessex said:

Scrap it now.

Say's the guy from Essex

Your point being ?

[robinessex]

Camoradi said:

Breaking News, as the BBC would say

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agFWob0E7ns

Oh Yes!, bring back Spitting Image. PLEASE!!!!!!

[jamoor]

Blue62 said:

I reckon it's dead, Cameron was one of the biggest supporters and tellingly Boris and Osborne abstained from a vote on financing the project last year, leaving the way clear to scrap it if one of them took office.

If you really want to help northern economies (and the referendum result surely highlights this as an urgent priority), then you would link Liverpool and Leeds with a fast link, moving up to Newcastle in time. Why a country our size needs a train that will do 240mph to shave 20 minutes off a trip to Birmingham from London is anyone's guess, but mine is that they want Brum to become a suburb of the smoke. Massive folly.

They need to build a road link between sheffield and Manchester.

It's amazing that london gets 2 crossrail projects yet 2 large northern cities have no decent road/rail connection.

[Blue62]

jamoor said:

They need to build a road link between sheffield and Manchester.

It's amazing that london gets 2 crossrail projects yet 2 large northern cities have no decent road/rail connection.

Sorry I should've been more explicit, Liverpool, Manchester, Sheffield, Leeds, Sunderland and Newcastle. Get it done or face even deeper social and economic unrest in the post-industrial north.

[Puggit]

The benefit of HS2 was not to shave 20 mins of the Bham-London time, although that it is how it was certainly marketed. The greatest benefit is taking the high speed trains away from the shared lines, and allowing more local and freight services on the old primary line.

I'm not here as a fan of HS2 - I'm ambivalent.

[FourWheelDrift]

"A new housing estate in South Yorkshire faces demolition after proposals to build the HS2 train line through part of the site. About 400 residents of the Shimmer housing estate in Mexborough received hand-delivered letters from HS2 Ltd on Thursday, informing them that the government would need to acquire “some or all” of their land if new proposals for the South Yorkshire route were approved."

"The £30m estate of 212 family homes has been under construction since 2011 and is expected to be finished in June 2017. So far 166 houses have been sold and are occupied. Another 46 are yet to be finished, and 23 of those have been reserved by buyers."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/08/hu...
http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/business/...

This madness needs to end.

[MarshPhantom]

FourWheelDrift said:

"A new housing estate in South Yorkshire faces demolition after proposals to build the HS2 train line through part of the site. About 400 residents of the Shimmer housing estate in Mexborough received hand-delivered letters from HS2 Ltd on Thursday, informing them that the government would need to acquire “some or all” of their land if new proposals for the South Yorkshire route were approved."

"The £30m estate of 212 family homes has been under construction since 2011 and is expected to be finished in June 2017. So far 166 houses have been sold and are occupied. Another 46 are yet to be finished, and 23 of those have been reserved by buyers."

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jul/08/hu...
http://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/business/...

This madness needs to end.

Those houses are more needed than HS2.

[cirian75]

jamoor said:

They need to build a road link between sheffield and Manchester.

It's amazing that london gets 2 crossrail projects yet 2 large northern cities have no decent road/rail connection.

My mate lives in Manchester and his jobs in Sheffield, he has given up commuting backwards and forwards each night, now stays in a cheap hotel Monday to Thursday night

[Axionknight]

cirian75 said:

jamoor said:

They need to build a road link between sheffield and Manchester.

It's amazing that london gets 2 crossrail projects yet 2 large northern cities have no decent road/rail connection.

My mate lives in Manchester and his jobs in Sheffield, he has given up commuting backwards and forwards each night, now stays in a cheap hotel Monday to Thursday night

Snake Pass route? That's a garbage road to commute on, especially in the winter time.

[rs1952]

Esseesse said:

robinessex said:

But the Government is pressing ahead – announcing last week that its line will be built as far as Crewe by 2027. The Department for Transport said: “The case for HS2 is crystal clear. It is crucial we press ahead on time and budget, and we remain on track to start construction in 2017.”

So it's a done deal then? As for 'crystal clear', this is government speak for 'we're not prepaired to listen to any opposition'

There is significant evidence that HS2 is driven from Brussels, so the government isn't in a position to listen to opposition anyway as they're not the ones in charge.

Time for a thread bump.

I've just heard on the radio news that Chris Grayling, now Transport Minister and not exactly arch-EU supporter, saying that he has no plans to dump HS2.

So that's that little lie about the EU leading on HS2 laid to rest then

Off topic, but I wonder how many other pet dislikes of the PH massive are going to turn out to be Whitehall and not EU inspired projects after all?

[Wozy68]

rs1952 said:

Time for a thread bump.

I've just heard on the radio news that Chris Grayling, now Transport Minister and not exactly arch-EU supporter, saying that he has no plans to dump HS2.

So that's that little lie about the EU leading on HS2 laid to rest then

Off topic, but I wonder how many other pet dislikes of the PH massive are going to turn out to be Whitehall and not EU inspired projects after all?

Why or why they didn't try to re-utilise the old Great Central line as far as Rugby with a spur off to Birmingham, I do not understand, its virtually still intact, (the bridges are still in place over the M45 and M1)...... far better than buying up scarce land in the south. After all it was built from Sheffield and was originally designed as a railway line to a Channel tunnel.....

What a silly idea that was, a new railway designed and built for four tracks (though only two were ever laid) to move freight, especially back in 1899..... a tunnel of all things

Edited by Wozy68 on Sunday 17th July 22:49

[rs1952]

Wozy68 said:

rs1952 said:

Time for a thread bump.

I've just heard on the radio news that Chris Grayling, now Transport Minister and not exactly arch-EU supporter, saying that he has no plans to dump HS2.

So that's that little lie about the EU leading on HS2 laid to rest then

Off topic, but I wonder how many other pet dislikes of the PH massive are going to turn out to be Whitehall and not EU inspired projects after all?

Why or why they didn't try to re-utilise the old Great Central line as far as Rugby with a spur off to Birmingham, I do not understand, its virtually still intact, (the bridges are still in place over the M45 and M1)...... far better than buying up scarce land in the south. After all it was built from Sheffield and was originally designed as a railway line to a Channel tunnel.....

What a silly idea that was, a new railway designed and built for four tracks (though only two were ever laid) to move freight, especially back in 1899..... a tunnel of all things

The real main reason for building the Great Central in the first place was to move coal - a proposal was originally put forward for a freight line only but was rejected by Parliament.

The matter of reusing the GC has been dealt with, earlier on this thread I think but it could have been somewhere else, and I CBA to look back through it now. Therefore, in bullet points:

• Marylebone to Aylesbury is still in use, and it wouldn't be possible to incorporate HS2 traffic on the existing lines (which include usage by LT Metropolitan trains south of Amersham) without widening and thereby causing more opposition than building a new railway. Thousands of people being told they have to sell part of their gardens would not get sitting MPs re-elected in Metroland

• Aylesbury to Calvert still in use as a freight line, and may also have Milton Keynes-Aylesbury-Marylebone passenger trains when Bedford to Oxford is reopened. This is already on the cards.

• Between Calvert and Brackley HS2 generally follows the GC alignment but has been realigned in places. A "high speed" railway in the 1890s was 75mph - in the 21st century it is more like 200mph and things would start falling off the bends if you tried that speed on the original alignment.

• The line through Brackley has been almost completely redeveloped, and a bloody great embankment has been removed to provide the A43 Brackley bypass. Brackley would need to be bypassed anyway

• North of Brackley is Catesby tunnel. The loading gauge, contrary to what many believe, is not "continental" through the tunnel and the whole thing would have to be widened, heightened or bypassed. There is a similar width problem with Catesby viaduct, plus the possibility of having to rebuild it as it hasn't had any weight on it in 50 years. Although the alignment is largely still intact north of Brackley, it is actually cheaper to build a new line heading direct for Brum from Brackley.

Oh, and by the way - most of the alignment between Nottingham and Aylesbury was built for a double track railway, not a four track one.

Hope this helps

[Wozy68]

rs1952 said:

Wozy68 said:

rs1952 said:

Time for a thread bump.

I've just heard on the radio news that Chris Grayling, now Transport Minister and not exactly arch-EU supporter, saying that he has no plans to dump HS2.

So that's that little lie about the EU leading on HS2 laid to rest then

Off topic, but I wonder how many other pet dislikes of the PH massive are going to turn out to be Whitehall and not EU inspired projects after all?

Why or why they didn't try to re-utilise the old Great Central line as far as Rugby with a spur off to Birmingham, I do not understand, its virtually still intact, (the bridges are still in place over the M45 and M1)...... far better than buying up scarce land in the south. After all it was built from Sheffield and was originally designed as a railway line to a Channel tunnel.....

What a silly idea that was, a new railway designed and built for four tracks (though only two were ever laid) to move freight, especially back in 1899..... a tunnel of all things

The real main reason for building the Great Central in the first place was to move coal - a proposal was originally put forward for a freight line only but was rejected by Parliament.

The matter of reusing the GC has been dealt with, earlier on this thread I think but it could have been somewhere else, and I CBA to look back through it now. Therefore, in bullet points:

• Marylebone to Aylesbury is still in use, and it wouldn't be possible to incorporate HS2 traffic on the existing lines (which include usage by LT Metropolitan trains south of Amersham) without widening and thereby causing more opposition than building a new railway. Thousands of people being told they have to sell part of their gardens would not get sitting MPs re-elected in Metroland

• Aylesbury to Calvert still in use as a freight line, and may also have Milton Keynes-Aylesbury-Marylebone passenger trains when Bedford to Oxford is reopened. This is already on the cards.

• Between Calvert and Brackley HS2 generally follows the GC alignment but has been realigned in places. A "high speed" railway in the 1890s was 75mph - in the 21st century it is more like 200mph and things would start falling off the bends if you tried that speed on the original alignment.

• The line through Brackley has been almost completely redeveloped, and a bloody great embankment has been removed to provide the A43 Brackley bypass. Brackley would need to be bypassed anyway

• North of Brackley is Catesby tunnel. The loading gauge, contrary to what many believe, is not "continental" through the tunnel and the whole thing would have to be widened, heightened or bypassed. There is a similar width problem with Catesby viaduct, plus the possibility of having to rebuild it as it hasn't had any weight on it in 50 years. Although the alignment is largely still intact north of Brackley, it is actually cheaper to build a new line heading direct for Brum from Brackley.

Oh, and by the way - most of the alignment between Nottingham and Aylesbury was built for a double track railway, not a four track one.

Hope this helps

Hmmm, good response, however ....

The knocking down of an industrial estate and the rebuilding of a viaduct at Brackley is nothing like the hundreds of houses that are required for HS2 and other infrastructure.

The line was indeed built for high speed (OK that's early 20th century high speed) with a ruling gradient of 1 in 176 and curves of a minimum radius of 1 mile ........ however just why we need 200MPH trains now is beyond me......I would have though capacity would be top priority.

OK it wasn't built to be all four track but large parts were designed for at least the ability to add them. Its a mute point I assume as surely HS2 would only be two tracks?

The argument about Catesby tunnel require widening is the thing I cant really understand. The Central railway freight Co (or whatever it was called) that wanted to re-utilise the line back in the nineties stated that it was more than possible to alter the tunnel (and that, only in height) for modern freight containers, so I cant see why the engineering for this is no longer possible or classed as such a major obstacle.

I know I'm being simplistic, but it just seems a bloody shame that the massive engineering that went into it and the scar left on the landscape cant be re-used south of Rugby rather than building a completely new line. But if it cant, or at least those in the know think its to much hassle, then there aint a lot can be done

Edited by Wozy68 on Monday 18th July 00:13