HS2, whats the current status ?
Discussion
hornetrider said:
Did I hear on the wireless this morning that the projected journey time from Manchester to London was 1hr 8 mins? Regardless of the rights and wrongs, that's pretty impressive. I can well imagine lots of people working in the City daily 'commuting' from the North.... pushing up house prices 
The time is right but not sure commuting would be feasible. Imagine how much a season ticket would cost. Plus getting into the middle of Manchester in the morning isn't trivial.hornetrider said:
Did I hear on the wireless this morning that the projected journey time from Manchester to London was 1hr 8 mins? Regardless of the rights and wrongs, that's pretty impressive. I can well imagine lots of people working in the City daily 'commuting' from the North.... pushing up house prices
Seems rather unlikely. I thought London - Brum was currently 1hr40 and HS2 was going to knock 20 mins off that. Which is why they've gone from banging on about journey times to saying it's needed for extra capacity. How many people already commute from Manchester? Any? Building more houses in the South East is the answer, surely.People want cheaper trains not faster ones.
Cost of a single currently for that journey is anywhere between £85 and £230. HS2 will no doubt cost much more than that. If it's for the benefit of the north why not start building it there.
Be a lot cheaper and just as quick to fly.
Edited by MarshPhantom on Tuesday 15th November 09:52
hornetrider said:
Did I hear on the wireless this morning that the projected journey time from Manchester to London was 1hr 8 mins? Regardless of the rights and wrongs, that's pretty impressive. I can well imagine lots of people working in the City daily 'commuting' from the North.... pushing up house prices
It's not manchester as such that's prposed for the HS2, it's manchester airport area, which is close to large areas of already quite well priced housing. Which sort of highlights my point, we could end up with people from South Manchester and Cheshire commuting to London rather than into manchester. Stockport, Wilmslow or Altrincham into Mancherster is already a 45 minute commute in rush hour because local infrastructure is so bad (and to be fair I imagine Manchester is better than other cities because the tram isn't half bad at all to many areas)MarshPhantom said:
Seems rather unlikely.
People want cheaper trains not faster ones.
Cost of a single currently for that journey anywhere between £85 and £230. HS2 will no doubt cost much more than. If it's for the benefit of the north why not start building it there.
Be a lot cheaper and just as quick to fly.
I could not agree more with any of this. The only caveat is that capacity is/will be required and that HS2 can, in some form, deliver this.People want cheaper trains not faster ones.
Cost of a single currently for that journey anywhere between £85 and £230. HS2 will no doubt cost much more than. If it's for the benefit of the north why not start building it there.
Be a lot cheaper and just as quick to fly.
FredClogs said:
It's not manchester as such that's prposed for the HS2, it's manchester airport area, which is close to large areas of already quite well priced housing. Which sort of highlights my point, we could end up with people from South Manchester and Cheshire commuting to London rather than into manchester. Stockport, Wilmslow or Altrincham into Mancherster is already a 45 minute commute in rush hour because local infrastructure is so bad (and to be fair I imagine Manchester is better than other cities because the tram isn't half bad at all to many areas)
South Manchester/Cheshire area is not known for low 'hice' prices, as it is. Seems the least suitable place to stoke up in that regard.FredClogs said:
hornetrider said:
Did I hear on the wireless this morning that the projected journey time from Manchester to London was 1hr 8 mins? Regardless of the rights and wrongs, that's pretty impressive. I can well imagine lots of people working in the City daily 'commuting' from the North.... pushing up house prices
It's not manchester as such that's prposed for the HS2, it's manchester airport area, which is close to large areas of already quite well priced housing. Which sort of highlights my point, we could end up with people from South Manchester and Cheshire commuting to London rather than into manchester. Stockport, Wilmslow or Altrincham into Mancherster is already a 45 minute commute in rush hour because local infrastructure is so bad (and to be fair I imagine Manchester is better than other cities because the tram isn't half bad at all to many areas)As for commuting to London, many already do. There's good reason why the Manchester to London service stops at Stockport and Wilmslow, and you only have to get on the early trains between 6-7am to get an idea of the demographic of those commuting. That wouldn't change with HS2 stopping at the Airport - you might just shift the inflated house prices a little further west from the Wilmslow and Alderley Edge areas to the Bowdon and Hale areas
Digga said:
I think this would be an extremely complicated issue WRT to tunnels, but would certainly add capacity. TBH, extending the lengths of trains and platforms might be a simpler, cheaper and faster proposition.
Already been discussed. It would be hideously expensive as you'd have to modify a considerable number of bridges and tunnels to accommodate double-decker carriages. And many stations have already lengthened platforms to accommodate longer trains - I'd imagine there'd be limitations on just how much longer they could practicably be made. AFAUI there would also be knock-on effects on headways, which I understand are already virtually as tight as they can be.
Some fool on LBC saying we need HS2 because the M1 is always gridlocked between London and Brum, and he lives Hertfordhire and it takes him 2.5 hrs to drive to Lambeth.
None is which remotely true.
The problem with trains is they're only any good if you want go somewhere the train goes, much like Eurostar. Been to Paris enough times thanks.
Which would have been a million times better if it was a road link. Something the HS2 planners should bear in mind.
None is which remotely true.
The problem with trains is they're only any good if you want go somewhere the train goes, much like Eurostar. Been to Paris enough times thanks.
Which would have been a million times better if it was a road link. Something the HS2 planners should bear in mind.
Swervin_Mervin said:
Digga said:
I think this would be an extremely complicated issue WRT to tunnels, but would certainly add capacity. TBH, extending the lengths of trains and platforms might be a simpler, cheaper and faster proposition.
Already been discussed. It would be hideously expensive as you'd have to modify a considerable number of bridges and tunnels to accommodate double-decker carriages. MarshPhantom said:
The problem with trains is they're only any good if you want go somewhere the train goes, much like Eurostar. Been to Paris enough times thanks.
Which would have been a million times better if it was a road link. Something the HS2 planners should bear in mind.
Agreed. There is also, generally, far far higher traffic density on UK roads than railways.Which would have been a million times better if it was a road link. Something the HS2 planners should bear in mind.
hornetrider said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
Already been discussed. It would be hideously expensive as you'd have to modify a considerable number of bridges and tunnels to accommodate double-decker carriages.
56bn expensive?MarshPhantom said:
hornetrider said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
Already been discussed. It would be hideously expensive as you'd have to modify a considerable number of bridges and tunnels to accommodate double-decker carriages.
56bn expensive?FredClogs said:
It's not manchester as such that's prposed for the HS2, it's manchester airport area, which is close to large areas of already quite well priced housing. Which sort of highlights my point, we could end up with people from South Manchester and Cheshire commuting to London rather than into manchester. Stockport, Wilmslow or Altrincham into Mancherster is already a 45 minute commute in rush hour because local infrastructure is so bad (and to be fair I imagine Manchester is better than other cities because the tram isn't half bad at all to many areas)
Altrincham has the tram (25 mins) and wilmslow has a train (20 mins) and they are both very expensive for housing. This area is the least "well priced" area of the NW and Cheshire.
Wythenshawe is the cheapest part of south Manc but I don't think many people will be commuting from there.
Digga said:
MarshPhantom said:
hornetrider said:
Swervin_Mervin said:
Already been discussed. It would be hideously expensive as you'd have to modify a considerable number of bridges and tunnels to accommodate double-decker carriages.
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