20mph speed limits to be imposed to protect cyclists
Discussion
mail said:
...The new lower limits will be enforced by upgraded digital speed cameras, according to TfL.
...(keen cyclist) Mayor Johnson said: 'Lower speeds have the potential to significantly improve road safety while enhancing the environment for walking and cycling. As well as actively supporting and funding the installation of 20mph zones and limits on borough roads across London, we have also been looking at the TfL Road Network to see where further 20 mph limits could provide significant benefits. These locations will help us to better understand the role that 20 mph limits could play going forward.'
Matt Winfield, Sustrans London Deputy Director, said: 'This is a bold move from Transport for London to improve some of London's busiest streets.
'The advantages of 20mph go beyond the obvious gains in road safety - lowering the speed limit also helps to make our city a more comfortable and pleasant place to be. Our research shows that Londoners are keener than anywhere else in the UK to walk or cycle to school if their route was on 20mph streets.
'On the back of these new trials I hope to see more London boroughs adopt 20mph.'
Tom Platt, Living Streets London Policy and Campaigns Manager, said: 'These trials are great news for everyone living, working and visiting London.
'Councils across the city are now recognising that lower speed limits significantly improve the quality of our streets reducing road danger and creating a more inviting place to walk and spend time.
....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2992052/Mo......(keen cyclist) Mayor Johnson said: 'Lower speeds have the potential to significantly improve road safety while enhancing the environment for walking and cycling. As well as actively supporting and funding the installation of 20mph zones and limits on borough roads across London, we have also been looking at the TfL Road Network to see where further 20 mph limits could provide significant benefits. These locations will help us to better understand the role that 20 mph limits could play going forward.'
Matt Winfield, Sustrans London Deputy Director, said: 'This is a bold move from Transport for London to improve some of London's busiest streets.
'The advantages of 20mph go beyond the obvious gains in road safety - lowering the speed limit also helps to make our city a more comfortable and pleasant place to be. Our research shows that Londoners are keener than anywhere else in the UK to walk or cycle to school if their route was on 20mph streets.
'On the back of these new trials I hope to see more London boroughs adopt 20mph.'
Tom Platt, Living Streets London Policy and Campaigns Manager, said: 'These trials are great news for everyone living, working and visiting London.
'Councils across the city are now recognising that lower speed limits significantly improve the quality of our streets reducing road danger and creating a more inviting place to walk and spend time.
....
Who protects them from themselves?
In the spirit of the season: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLgEIohYq7ktcUR3X...
In the spirit of the season: https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLgEIohYq7ktcUR3X...
Think that is where the full article is copied and pasted/not attributed to the source.
Taking a short extract and linking directly to it is fine. Fair use and all that.
What are they going to do, sue me?
http://tktk.gawker.com/my-year-ripping-off-the-web...
and http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p09_fa...
Taking a short extract and linking directly to it is fine. Fair use and all that.
What are they going to do, sue me?
http://tktk.gawker.com/my-year-ripping-off-the-web...and http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p09_fa...
Maybe... just maybe.. it's because motorists have been arguing like t
ts, and therefore don't have political credibility anymore?
It's suprising how, on a site supposedly keen on emphasising self-reliance, how any time things don't go your way you're going to blame someone else.
Face it, your arguments blow as much as your driving.
ts, and therefore don't have political credibility anymore?It's suprising how, on a site supposedly keen on emphasising self-reliance, how any time things don't go your way you're going to blame someone else.
Face it, your arguments blow as much as your driving.
I wonder what evidence lies behind this proposal. For example, how many of the unfortunate deaths involve vehicles travelling over 20mph. Somewhat sceptical but prepared to be convinced if the evidence is there. Since most incidents seem to involve lorries turning left at junctions I'd be surprised if the evidence supports it.
Surely emissions will increase if all cars, vans, lorries and buses are forced to drive around in 1st gear at 20mph in London. Is one more ill-conceived policy by out-of-touch clowns.
Welcome back more smog, increased emissions, reduced fuel consumption and worsening air quality - surely that breaches some jobsworths environmental EU policies?
If a survey was carried out I can assume it was done in the daytime when most motorists were at work! - this scenario happened in Nottingham.
Welcome back more smog, increased emissions, reduced fuel consumption and worsening air quality - surely that breaches some jobsworths environmental EU policies?
If a survey was carried out I can assume it was done in the daytime when most motorists were at work! - this scenario happened in Nottingham.
I'm a cyclist. I don't want to see 20mph limits. Hell, on a decent day, I should be going that fast. I want you buggers to be on your way, not constantly vie for position with cars.
I am also a driver. 20mph would just piss me off.
Thank god I rarely have to enter the living hell that is London.
I am also a driver. 20mph would just piss me off.
Thank god I rarely have to enter the living hell that is London.
Will this be enforced for cyclists? An averagely fit cyclist should be able to travel at more than this with ease, actually in a sprint would a runner not exceed this?
Not sure if things have changed but years back a speedo was not required if a vehicle could not exceed 30?
Still I guess 20'on many London roads would be an increase in attainable speed.
Not sure if things have changed but years back a speedo was not required if a vehicle could not exceed 30?
Still I guess 20'on many London roads would be an increase in attainable speed.
richie99 said:
I wonder what evidence lies behind this proposal. For example, how many of the unfortunate deaths involve vehicles travelling over 20mph. Somewhat sceptical but prepared to be convinced if the evidence is there. Since most incidents seem to involve lorries turning left at junctions I'd be surprised if the evidence supports it.
Quite. I live in a city that has been "blessed" with 20mph speed limits, and I have a couple of observations.1) Most of them are on streets where I wouldn't drive at 20mph anyway, let alone over it. Anybody who does drive over 20mph on that sort of road (cars parked both sides, only room for one car at a time down the middle, houses all around, plenty of opportunity for a kid to run after a ball) isn't going to let a sign slow them down.
2)Some of the streets they've put a 20mph limit on are a bit silly. Like this one:
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=englishcombe+lane...
And that means that it's routinely flouted, which is stupid because it makes people think that 20mph limits are arbitrary.
3)There are a couple of roads where I see a lot of cyclists, and there's one big problem. The average speed of a cyclist in my town is around about 15mph, or thereabouts. I'm going to do some maths, so assume that's around 6.7 m/s. If I want to overtake I will be about 7.5m behind the cyclist. Car acceleration is estimated at 3m/s/s.
In a 30mph zone you'll take around 3 seconds and 26 metres to pass a cyclist while staying at the limit. In a 20mph zone you need about 7 seconds and 53 metres, again while saying in the speed limit. The distance needed to safely pass an average cyclist about doubles, and that sort of space isn't too easy to come by on a busy road.
Without proper cycle lanes this has the possibility to make it even more annoying to be behind a cyclist.
Some Gump said:
I'm a cyclist. I don't want to see 20mph limits. Hell, on a decent day, I should be going that fast. I want you buggers to be on your way, not constantly vie for position with cars.
I am also a driver. 20mph would just piss me off.
Thank god I rarely have to enter the living hell that is London.
Off topic but London is a great place. Made better by people who don't like it staying away...I am also a driver. 20mph would just piss me off.
Thank god I rarely have to enter the living hell that is London.
When I'm cycling, I want cars to overtake me relatively quickly, reducing my exposure to them. I'd feel much safer being passed by a car at 30mph, than one trundling alongside, creeping past at 20mph. Especially as they'll be more focused on their speedometer to try and avoid getting done for 'speeding' than watching what's going on around them.
Also, cyclists and pedestrians are much more likely to be dragged under a car at lower speeds. Generally, being bounced onto it is going to 'hurt less'. It's debatable whether less accidents would occur due to driving at lower speeds, most people that cause accidents at these speeds are simply not paying enough attention to what's going on around them, driving slower isn't going to change that.
Also, cyclists and pedestrians are much more likely to be dragged under a car at lower speeds. Generally, being bounced onto it is going to 'hurt less'. It's debatable whether less accidents would occur due to driving at lower speeds, most people that cause accidents at these speeds are simply not paying enough attention to what's going on around them, driving slower isn't going to change that.
Boris is going a bit bonkers with the roads. Taxi and private hire cars to be electric or hybrid in x years.
20,000+ black cabs + loads of private hire vehicles.
Minimum range capability 40 miles.
Charging point network x 500. Charging time 30 - 40 minutes.
Don't have my abacus to hand, but the numbers don't seem to add up from here.
20,000+ black cabs + loads of private hire vehicles.
Minimum range capability 40 miles.
Charging point network x 500. Charging time 30 - 40 minutes.
Don't have my abacus to hand, but the numbers don't seem to add up from here.
works for me. Somehow, i've averaged about a day per year for the last decade - leaving it nice and unspoiled by my grotty provincial pox 
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