Je Suis Billy Boy - Free Speech in the UK

[spitsfire]

Mojocvh said:

What does actually give with the proddy/Rangers fixation xj?

It seems to be something to do with his nationalist fixation - he's banged on about it ad nauseum on the independence thread. Those who aren't in favour of independence are 'unionists', therefore when he links them to the Tories and the marching bands, he feels vindicated in his self-righteous crusade and can stroke himself into ever-expanding indignation.

There's something self-delusional about saying it's a problem on both sides, but then repeatedly referencing one side but not the other. It's almost like taking a sectarian approach to resolving a sectarian problem.

[handpaper]

simoid said:

Re. The French anthem:

"Let impure blood water our furrows"

Does the impure blood come from Johnny Foreigner?

No, from the Bourbon monarchy and its supporters. OK, that was us for a time, but only because we were trying to reseat Louis the Umpteenth.

[McWigglebum4th]

spitsfire said:

Mojocvh said:

What does actually give with the proddy/Rangers fixation xj?

It seems to be something to do with his nationalist fixation - he's banged on about it ad nauseum on the independence thread. Those who aren't in favour of independence are 'unionists', therefore when he links them to the Tories and the marching bands, he feels vindicated in his self-righteous crusade and can stroke himself into ever-expanding indignation.

There's something self-delusional about saying it's a problem on both sides, but then repeatedly referencing one side but not the other. It's almost like taking a sectarian approach to resolving a sectarian problem.

Yes the banging on and on and on and on about one football team is rather odd

And accusing anyone who disagrees with him as being a rangers fan is very odd

I have never been to a football match as they tend to be 99% pond life


I am still utterly convinced he is viperprick as he was identical in his football obsession

Unless all nationalists are tiny minded bigoted simpletons

[Hugo a Gogo]

simoid said:

It really is a strange kettle of fish. I dont even know what's illegal.

The song? The tune? The words? Or is it only if you choose all three? And it has to be at/on the way to the football?

Can't get my head around it tbh. Not like we can start banning the word "Fenian" - it's used by the blue and green alike.

what's banned is whatever 'they' feel like
ie, Rule Britannia, blessing oneself
presumably wearing a blue or a green and white shirt will be next

[Hugo a Gogo]

xjsdriver said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

tell me where the Billy Boys mentions religion (hint: fenian doesn't mean catholic)

some nowadays seem to think Republicanism and Catholicism are one and the same, but it was never the case in the old days

We've already established that Fenian, although not specifically a derogatory term for catholics, is used by sectarian bigots as a derogatory term for catholics. To deny this, is either a massive misunderstanding on your part, or vile, apologist behaviour - which is it in your case?

it's used as a term for celtic fans and or irish republicans, who are seen as all being catholics
mainly hating catholics for being celtic fans, not hating celtic fans for being catholic

is it as derogatory as when the celtic fans call themselves fenians? or as bad as 'hun'? or 'tim'? or 'billy boy'?

[simoid]

xjsdriver said:

simoid said:

It really is a strange kettle of fish. I dont even know what's illegal.

The song? The tune? The words? Or is it only if you choose all three? And it has to be at/on the way to the football?

Can't get my head around it tbh. Not like we can start banning the word "Fenian" - it's used by the blue and green alike.

So Simoid, you do condone the actions of the moronic dinosaurs who bring your football team into disrepute then? Any decent Rangers fans I know (and I do know quite a fair few) are absolutely appalled by their actions.
Your attitude to this speaks volumes about your character. Being a Rangers fan yourself, you really should know better. You've baselessly accused me of sectarianism before, but you've just shown yourself up as a vile apologist.
We've already established it is the context the word Fenian is used, as the word itself is not necessarily sectarian in itself. Please do not debase the debate any further than you have already.

No.
Ok.
I'm not sure you can assess my attitude and I fear you may basing your opinion on prejudice.
I've not baselessly accused anyone of sectarianism.
I don't see how questioning the effect, intent and extent of the laws makes me an apologist. I haven't even expressed an opinion.
I don't understand what you mean - how is the word "Fenian" not sectarian? It denotes a particular group of people. Like saying Fifers or Huns or English, albeit with different connotations. This is my confusion - would it be legal to call someone a dirty Fife bd at a Falkirk Dunfermline game?

[simoid]

handpaper said:

simoid said:

Re. The French anthem:

"Let impure blood water our furrows"

Does the impure blood come from Johnny Foreigner?

No, from the Bourbon monarchy and its supporters. OK, that was us for a time, but only because we were trying to reseat Louis the Umpteenth.

Just wondering if we can arrest the French football team before kick off the next time they're at Hampden

Sounds like a hate song to me

[Hugo a Gogo]

and to think I hummed along to it at the Scotland game in Park du Prince in 2007

I hang my head now...

[Countdown]

simoid said:

Just wondering if we can arrest the French football team before kick off the next time they're at Hampden

Sounds like a hate song to me

Is the level of hatred between the French and the Scots the same as that between Protestants & Catholics? Is the French anthem aimed specifically at Scots?

[Countdown]

Hugo a Gogo said:

what's banned is whatever 'they' feel like
ie, Rule Britannia, blessing oneself
presumably wearing a blue or a green and white shirt will be next

"They" seem to represent the democratic majority. One of the downsides of living in a democracy is when there is more of "them" than "you".

[Hugo a Gogo]

Countdown said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

what's banned is whatever 'they' feel like
ie, Rule Britannia, blessing oneself
presumably wearing a blue or a green and white shirt will be next

"They" seem to represent the democratic majority. One of the downsides of living in a democracy is when there is more of "them" than "you".

they don't seem to represent the majority to me

also, google 'the tyranny of the majority' for me please

The point of the post was; what is banned is vague and ill-defined - and they don't seem to have had a public referendum on 'aggressive blessing' or 'Rule Britannia' that I remember

[simoid]

Countdown said:

simoid said:

Just wondering if we can arrest the French football team before kick off the next time they're at Hampden

Sounds like a hate song to me

Is the level of hatred between the French and the Scots the same as that between Protestants & Catholics? Is the French anthem aimed specifically at Scots?

I wasn't seriously suggesting the French football team should be, er frogmarched, out of Hampden for singing Le Marseilliesesseses

But since you asked, I don't know about the level of Franco-Scottish hatred. Is it relevant? Surely a hate song is a hate song.

Is the Billy Boys is aimed at anyone in particular, any more than Flower of Scotland and Proud Edward's army?

[Mojocvh]

simoid said:

Countdown said:

simoid said:

Just wondering if we can arrest the French football team before kick off the next time they're at Hampden

Sounds like a hate song to me

Is the level of hatred between the French and the Scots the same as that between Protestants & Catholics? Is the French anthem aimed specifically at Scots?

I wasn't seriously suggesting the French football team should be, er frogmarched, out of Hampden for singing Le Marseilliesesseses

But since you asked, I don't know about the level of Franco-Scottish hatred. Is it relevant? Surely a hate song is a hate song.

Is the Billy Boys is aimed at anyone in particular, any more than Flower of Scotland and Proud Edward's army?

Indeed the double standards are amazing.

[drainbrain]

xjsdriver said:

Sir Humphrey said:

I haven't read every single post but I don't think I've seen anyone call it harmless.

So you haven't read braindrain's post amongst others then?

Is asking 'what harm does the song do' the same as saying 'the song is harmless' ? Obviously it isn't the same.

Looking into it, the song appears to be the 'war song' of a fairly sophisticated Glasgow street gang from the inter war years of C20.

Here's a very interesting article about it all.

http://brigton-glesjack.blogspot.co.uk/2008/04/bil...

However, same question again. "What harm does the song do"? It's pretty meaningless to 99.9999999% of the planet's Catholics, and doesn't appear to bother many Scottish or Glasgow catholics either. Celtic fans seem to accept it as their rival's tribal chant best answered by one of their own chants in their unending and largely harmless 'game' of 90-minute bigotry. Which leaves us with the poor old Fenians. Does a football fans' tribal chant with the line 'up to our knees in Fenian blood' really cause that much offence to that tiny tiny minority of the world's population who class themselves as 'fenians'? Hmmm. Why don't we ask one? (assuming there actually are any).

Other than the new weaselly class of hyper-easily-offended people no-one's really offended by the song at all, including, I suspect, fenians themselves It's a silly harmless football chant and handing out a 4 month jail sentence to someone who sings it is almost as silly as singing it to try to offend someone.

Edited by drainbrain on Wednesday 18th March 15:38

[R1gtr]

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ce...

What should the sentence be here then Xjs?

[xjsdriver]

R1gtr said:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ce...

What should the sentence be here then Xjs?

Since it appears that what aboutery is rife on here, yup, he can go for a 4 month lie down too..... HTH

Edited by xjsdriver on Wednesday 18th March 20:02

[xjsdriver]

Mojocvh said:

What does actually give with the proddy/Rangers fixation xj?

No fixation, but I believe that we're discussing vile sectarianism from Glasgow's blue half. Also just to help you out with your stereotype fixation busting - I was born a protestant, as I made clear a couple of pages ago......and I'm married to a catholic. If someone had started a thread on sectarian songs sung by Celtic - I'd have jumped in with both boots too.

[xjsdriver]

Hugo a Gogo said:

what's banned is whatever 'they' feel like
ie, Rule Britannia, blessing oneself
presumably wearing a blue or a green and white shirt will be next

Now you are simply being obtuse, and I'd suggest you look up the meaning of cross party support. Here's a clue it involved support from your beloved Tories in Scotland too. "They" voted for it too.

[xjsdriver]

Hugo a Gogo said:

it's used as a term for celtic fans and or irish republicans, who are seen as all being catholics
mainly hating catholics for being celtic fans, not hating celtic fans for being catholic

is it as derogatory as when the celtic fans call themselves fenians? or as bad as 'hun'? or 'tim'? or 'billy boy'?

It depends on who uses thge word and in what context - we've already gone over this. But as usual if it's something the majority don't like on here, the view gets shouted down, instead of being debated like grown ups. To simplify it - just for you, it's a bit like black people being able to use the "N" word with impunity - but anyone WHITE can't

[xjsdriver]

simoid said:

No.
Ok.
I'm not sure you can assess my attitude and I fear you may basing your opinion on prejudice.
I've not baselessly accused anyone of sectarianism.
I don't see how questioning the effect, intent and extent of the laws makes me an apologist. I haven't even expressed an opinion.
I don't understand what you mean - how is the word "Fenian" not sectarian? It denotes a particular group of people. Like saying Fifers or Huns or English, albeit with different connotations. This is my confusion - would it be legal to call someone a dirty Fife bd at a Falkirk Dunfermline game?

Any Rangers fan that doesn't see the song as a problem is the problem, you Simoid, have firmly nailed your colours to the mast. To try weasel out out it shows your lack of character, any decent Rangers fan has no problem at all with decrying the small minded bigots who infest the club like rats. Any decent Rangers fan stands up to be counted against the aholes who ruin Scottish football and Scotland in general. I'd call you a of the first order, but you have neither the warmth, nor the depth.


P.S. Hope you enjoy a fourth season away from top flight football.