Je Suis Billy Boy - Free Speech in the UK

[drainbrain]

xjsdriver said:

R1gtr said:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ce...

What should the sentence be here then Xjs?

Since it appears that what aboutery is rife on here, yup, he can go for a 4 month lie down too..... HTH

Edited by xjsdriver on Wednesday 18th March 20:02

Just him because he's a 'face'…..or the whole of the rest of the pub singers too?

[Janluke]

xjsdriver said:

Now you are simply being obtuse, and I'd suggest you look up the meaning of cross party support. Here's a clue it involved support from your beloved Tories in Scotland too. "They" voted for it too.

Not only cross party support but cross country support most people in Scotland no matter what race, religion or area support these laws

[slow_poke]

drainbrain said:

Does a football fans' tribal chant with the line 'up to our knees in Fenian blood' really cause that much offence to that tiny tiny minority of the world's population who class themselves as 'fenians'? Hmmm. Why don't we ask one? (assuming there actually are any).

Hello there. I'm a Fenian. What's your question?

[Hugo a Gogo]

xjsdriver said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

what's banned is whatever 'they' feel like
ie, Rule Britannia, blessing oneself
presumably wearing a blue or a green and white shirt will be next

Now you are simply being obtuse, and I'd suggest you look up the meaning of cross party support. Here's a clue it involved support from your beloved Tories in Scotland too. "They" voted for it too.

my beloved tories? where the hell do you get that from?

xjsdriver said:

It depends on who uses thge word and in what context - we've already gone over this. But as usual if it's something the majority don't like on here, the view gets shouted down, instead of being debated like grown ups. To simplify it - just for you, it's a bit like black people being able to use the "N" word with impunity - but anyone WHITE can't

I think you've got me mixed up with someone VERY different

so which words there are offensive? it depends who and where and when?

"i can't define it, but I know it if I see it" that kind of thing?

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Wednesday 18th March 21:39

[drainbrain]

slow_poke said:

drainbrain said:

Does a football fans' tribal chant with the line 'up to our knees in Fenian blood' really cause that much offence to that tiny tiny minority of the world's population who class themselves as 'fenians'? Hmmm. Why don't we ask one? (assuming there actually are any).

Hello there. I'm a Fenian. What's your question?

Hello 'brave young warrior'.

How offended and harmed or damaged are you by a bonehead singing a song which contains the line "up to our knees in Fenian blood'?

a) Very offended and harmed. Probably left in need of professional counselling.

b) Slightly offended and damaged. Left feeling needy and bullied.

c) Not really offended at all. Left feeling glad you're not a bonehead singing a silly song and even prouder than ever to be a fenian.

[slow_poke]

drainbrain said:

slow_poke said:

drainbrain said:

Does a football fans' tribal chant with the line 'up to our knees in Fenian blood' really cause that much offence to that tiny tiny minority of the world's population who class themselves as 'fenians'? Hmmm. Why don't we ask one? (assuming there actually are any).

Hello there. I'm a Fenian. What's your question?

Hello 'brave young warrior'.

How offended and harmed or damaged are you by a bonehead singing a song which contains the line "up to our knees in Fenian blood'?

a) Very offended and harmed. Probably left in need of professional counselling.

b) Slightly offended and damaged. Left feeling needy and bullied.

c) Not really offended at all. Left feeling glad you're not a bonehead singing a silly song and even prouder than ever to be a fenian.

Er, yeah. Thanks for supplying answers and all, but none of them really fit. The actual answer is quite a bit more complex, but essentially - the day I worry about what wkers like that are singing hasn't yet arrived.

[drainbrain]

slow_poke said:

- the day I worry about what wkers like that are singing hasn't yet arrived.

And so say all of us.

MOST baldies, fatties, gingers, blacks, gays, women, jews, travellers (and fenians, of course) etc etc really don't curl up in a sobbing ball when a clown hurls an insult at them. It doesn't merit them spending 2 seconds even thinking about it. But there's a whole army of over sensitive and easily offended professional PCists who DEMAND time and energy is wasted on these clowns. To get the idea, the money wasted on putting this particular clown through the legal process and into jail for 4 months would probably pay a nurse's cop's or teacher's wages for a year. That's the REAL disgrace.

[slow_poke]

drainbrain said:

slow_poke said:

- the day I worry about what wkers like that are singing hasn't yet arrived.

And so say all of us.

MOST baldies, fatties, gingers, blacks, gays, women, jews, travellers (and fenians, of course) etc etc really don't curl up in a sobbing ball when a clown hurls an insult at them. It doesn't merit them spending 2 seconds even thinking about it. But there's a whole army of over sensitive and easily offended professional PCists who DEMAND time and energy is wasted on these clowns. To get the idea, the money wasted on putting this particular clown through the legal process and into jail for 4 months would probably pay a nurse's cop's or teacher's wages for a year. That's the REAL disgrace.

And then again, and yet and all, whilst I don't worry about it - I still recognise it as a "hate crime" song and doing something to remove that from society is a good thing. Even to the extent of locking up an idiot for a few months.

I don't go around singing about killing Brits or Prods, or Rangers supporters so why should I have to tolerate listening to Billy Boy scum singing sectarian ste?

In summary - singing those songs is a hate crime. Deal with it as such.

[glazbagun]

drainbrain said:

And so say all of us.

MOST baldies, fatties, gingers, blacks, gays, women, jews, travellers (and fenians, of course) etc etc really don't curl up in a sobbing ball when a clown hurls an insult at them. It doesn't merit them spending 2 seconds even thinking about it. But there's a whole army of over sensitive and easily offended professional PCists who DEMAND time and energy is wasted on these clowns. To get the idea, the money wasted on putting this particular clown through the legal process and into jail for 4 months would probably pay a nurse's cop's or teacher's wages for a year. That's the REAL disgrace.

A fatty/woman/ginger/white/black guy probably would if they were out with their family to see the football and a bunch of chavs started chanting racist/sexist/abusive songs at them on their way down the street. Even moreso if they were one of few blacks in a white town. And it happened all the time.


I think this is more a case of how do you deal with asymmetric antisocial behavior (did I just invent a term?) The issue is old firm violence, intimidation and general knuckledragging bigotry and how to reverse its growth. It's st, the worst thing about Scotland by a country mile IMO. But a Rangers/Celtic fan looks just the same as the kind of total bd who'll stab you for wearing the wrong colour so what can you do to diminish it that doesn't involve placing faith in the judiciary system to interpret the law as intended?

[xjsdriver]

slow_poke said:

And then again, and yet and all, whilst I don't worry about it - I still recognise it as a "hate crime" song and doing something to remove that from society is a good thing. Even to the extent of locking up an idiot for a few months.

I don't go around singing about killing Brits or Prods, or Rangers supporters so why should I have to tolerate listening to Billy Boy scum singing sectarian ste?

In summary - singing those songs is a hate crime. Deal with it as such.

+1 Hear hear!!!

[drainbrain]

glazbagun said:

A fatty/woman/ginger/white/black guy probably would if they were out with their family to see the football and a bunch of chavs started chanting racist/sexist/abusive songs at them on their way down the street. Even moreso if they were one of few blacks in a white town. And it happened all the time.


I think this is more a case of how do you deal with asymmetric antisocial behavior (did I just invent a term?) The issue is old firm violence, intimidation and general knuckledragging bigotry and how to reverse its growth. It's st, the worst thing about Scotland by a country mile IMO. But a Rangers/Celtic fan looks just the same as the kind of total bd who'll stab you for wearing the wrong colour so what can you do to diminish it that doesn't involve placing faith in the judiciary system to interpret the law as intended?

There is definitely behaviour which requires judicial process and punishment, but SINGING isn't that behaviour. And if you insist it is then what do you do when 1000s or even 10s of 1000s sing the songs at a football game? Arrest the lot of them and charge them with committing or 'being concerned' in committing hate crime? Or just arrest and charge some of them? So how is it decided who's to be arrested and charged and who isn't? In the post a few posts above why is the footballer charged with the racist singing and not the others in the pub? We can't have a law which is inconsistently applied can we?

I think a lot of this Rangers/Celtic thing is faux bigotry. Lots of song singers but not many real sectarian bigots who will cross the line from song singing to real dangerous behaviours. And very very very few intelligent or well educated ones. It's not really an intelligent person's type of activity. It's the province of stupid ill educated people. Punishing them for being stupid and doing stupid things isn't helpful and doesn't achieve anything. Once in jail the bonehead just gravitates to the company of other likeminded boneheads and ends up back out on the streets twice the bonehead he started as. What's the point in that?

[drainbrain]

xjsdriver said:

slow_poke said:

And then again, and yet and all, whilst I don't worry about it - I still recognise it as a "hate crime" song and doing something to remove that from society is a good thing. Even to the extent of locking up an idiot for a few months.

I don't go around singing about killing Brits or Prods, or Rangers supporters so why should I have to tolerate listening to Billy Boy scum singing sectarian ste?

In summary - singing those songs is a hate crime. Deal with it as such.

+1 Hear hear!!!

So, guys, next Old Firm match should we ideally be looking at arresting charging and jailing 30 or 40 thousand people? Or if that's logistically impossible, do a few hundred or even a thousand at least? Or are only SOME of the singers committing this 'hate crime' which isn't a crime for others to commit?

How does this work?

Is Donovan's song "Poke at the Pope" from the Open Road album also a potential hate crime? Or doesn't it count because he was born a catholic so it's ok?

How do you guys feel about blasphemy, by the way? Or the general denigration of religious belief and the insulting terminology that accompanies it? Or, conversely, all the widespread racist and sectarian and homophobic expressions within classic religious texts like The Bible?

Edited by drainbrain on Thursday 19th March 00:47

[technodup]

drainbrain said:

I think a lot of this Rangers/Celtic thing is faux bigotry. Lots of song singers but not many real sectarian bigots who will cross the line from song singing to real dangerous behaviours.

90 minute bigots. I know a guy married to a Catholic who'll shout at every 'fenian bd, black fenian bd and Venezuelan fenian (the player was Honduran)' whilst sitting next to her. Stupid? Certainly. But too stupid to be offensive imo.

These are the same guys who go with women from the other side, work with guys on the other side and drink with guys on the other side the other 30 days in the month. Quite happily.

drainbrain said:

So, guys, next Old Firm match should we ideally be looking at arresting charging and jailing 30 or 40 thousand people? Or if that's logistically impossible, do a few hundred or even a thousand at least?

They threaten to play it behind closed doors.

It's not possible to police. The sheer numbers mean it can only ever be an exercise in singling folk out to make an example of.

Can anyone arguing for this ridiculous law explain where they see segregated schools in all this? Given that the differences are basically two sides of the same coin would stopping indoctrinating children that they are different not ultimately lead to more cohesion and less bigotry? Maybe resulting in longer term harmony than jailing someone for singing the famine song?

Edited by drainbrain on Thursday 19th March 00:47

[Mojocvh]

xjsdriver said:

Mojocvh said:

What does actually give with the proddy/Rangers fixation xj?

No fixation, but I believe that we're discussing vile sectarianism from Glasgow's blue half. Also just to help you out with your stereotype fixation busting - I was born a protestant, as I made clear a couple of pages ago......and I'm married to a catholic. If someone had started a thread on sectarian songs sung by Celtic - I'd have jumped in with both boots too.

In that case do just that.Go on. Do it.

But your prejudice just won't let you will it.

[Hugo a Gogo]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/...

the almost comical "ooh ah up the 'RA" is apparently the only offensive song sung en masse by the fenians sorry, the Celtic fans

[simoid]

xjsdriver said:

simoid said:

No.
Ok.
I'm not sure you can assess my attitude and I fear you may basing your opinion on prejudice.
I've not baselessly accused anyone of sectarianism.
I don't see how questioning the effect, intent and extent of the laws makes me an apologist. I haven't even expressed an opinion.
I don't understand what you mean - how is the word "Fenian" not sectarian? It denotes a particular group of people. Like saying Fifers or Huns or English, albeit with different connotations. This is my confusion - would it be legal to call someone a dirty Fife bd at a Falkirk Dunfermline game?

Any Rangers fan that doesn't see the song as a problem is the problem, you Simoid, have firmly nailed your colours to the mast. To try weasel out out it shows your lack of character, any decent Rangers fan has no problem at all with decrying the small minded bigots who infest the club like rats. Any decent Rangers fan stands up to be counted against the aholes who ruin Scottish football and Scotland in general. I'd call you a of the first order, but you have neither the warmth, nor the depth.


P.S. Hope you enjoy a fourth season away from top flight football.

You don't seem to be replying to the content of my posts. Are you having trouble understanding them, or are your unrelated foul-mouthed monologues deliberate?

I didn't say the song isn't a problem. I've not nailed my colours to any mast.
I'm not weaselling out of anything - I've no need to.

P.S. the only thing worse than a drawn out insult is repetition of drawn out insult, find a new one

Edited by simoid on Thursday 19th March 07:51

[simoid]

xjsdriver said:

slow_poke said:

And then again, and yet and all, whilst I don't worry about it - I still recognise it as a "hate crime" song and doing something to remove that from society is a good thing. Even to the extent of locking up an idiot for a few months.

I don't go around singing about killing Brits or Prods, or Rangers supporters so why should I have to tolerate listening to Billy Boy scum singing sectarian ste?

In summary - singing those songs is a hate crime. Deal with it as such.

+1 Hear hear!!!

To whom do you refer when you say "Billy Boy scum?"

[Hugo a Gogo]

Billy Boy clearly is a vile sectarian insult aimed at protestants

hate crime, take him down

[xRIEx]

Hugo a Gogo said:

interesting article
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/je-su...

article said:

It criminalises the ‘expression [of] religious hatred’, wiping out, in one foul swoop, the traditional songs and chants of Rangers and Celtic, who have long mocked each other with scurrilous words. To this end, Celtic fans have been arrested, some in dawn raids, for singing pro-IRA songs, Rangers fans have been had up for loyalist chanting ...

fk me, a law that legislates against hated and terrorism is a bad thing?! That 'journalist' is mental.

[xjsdriver]

simoid said:

You don't seem to be replying to the content of my posts. Are you having trouble understanding them, or are your unrelated foul-mouthed monologues deliberate?

I didn't say the song isn't a problem. I've not nailed my colours to any mast.
I'm not weaselling out of anything - I've no need to.

P.S. the only thing worse than a drawn out insult is repetition of drawn out insult, find a new one

Edited by simoid on Thursday 19th March 07:51

Simoid, just for you - People from Fife aren't from a particular sect, In fact there's a fairly strong Rangers contingent from Kirkcaldy......So call them what you like.

I will repeat again in big bold letters to aid you with reading, as it seems you are having trouble taking it in. ANY RANGERS FAN WHO CANNOT SEE THAT SECTARIAN SONGS ARE VILE IS PART OF SCOTLAND'S SHAME. FOR YOU TO ARGUE OTHERWISE DOES YOU NO CREDIT WHAT-SO-EVER.

This also applies to Celtic fans who also sing sectarian song, it is shameful, disgusting behaviour and whole cross-sections of the community across Scotland are sick of it. The laws past were welcome by everyone in Scotland apart from the bigots.

If you are not part of the solution to rid Scotland of sectarianism, then you are part of the problem. You cannot say that you didn't think there was a problem at your club, because the SFA have taken action countless times against the club.

If there wasn't a problem with sectarian songs, then there would be no need for the law, which was widely accepted (and welcomed) by everyone in Scotland apart from the bigots. Do you belong to the orange lodge? Do you go on orange walks? If the answer is yes, you are most probably a bigot, who dresses up sectarianism as tradition and free speech.

It is no longer acceptable in a modern Scotland. As others on here have said the law was welcomed across Scotland, regardless of political, or ethnic persuasion........apart from the scumbag morons who are too deluded to see it.