Je Suis Billy Boy - Free Speech in the UK
Discussion
I wonder if the Scottish Governments' new football related race/sectarian hate laws applies to their own:
express said:
Bigoted language shame of would-be SNP MP
A SNP parliamentary candidate was last night forced to make a grovelling apology after the Sunday Express revealed he repeatedly used football-related sectarian slurs.
Brendan O’Hara, who is the favourite to win the crucial marginal seat of Argyll and Bute, called Rangers supporters “huns” on a Celtic fans’ website.
It is an extremely insulting and bigoted term for the Ibrox club and their followers, although some would argue it is derogatory to all Protestants.
Use of the word has seen a number of people convicted of a criminal offence in Scottish courts and, last year, the Scottish Government’s own research revealed that the majority of Scots feel the term is “unacceptable”.
To further add to the SNP’s embarrassment, it can also be revealed Mr O’Hara once described ex-Celtic striker Maurice Johnston as a “rat” who should not “show his face” in Glasgow.
Johnston became the highest-profile Roman Catholic to play for Rangers.
Last night, political opponents and anti-sectarian campaigners blasted the slurs as “entirely unacceptable”.
Mr O’Hara, 51, has stood for the SNP in two previous General Elections – in Springburn in 1987 and Glasgow Central in 1992.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/572961/Bigoted-language-shame-would-be-SNP-MPA SNP parliamentary candidate was last night forced to make a grovelling apology after the Sunday Express revealed he repeatedly used football-related sectarian slurs.
Brendan O’Hara, who is the favourite to win the crucial marginal seat of Argyll and Bute, called Rangers supporters “huns” on a Celtic fans’ website.
It is an extremely insulting and bigoted term for the Ibrox club and their followers, although some would argue it is derogatory to all Protestants.
Use of the word has seen a number of people convicted of a criminal offence in Scottish courts and, last year, the Scottish Government’s own research revealed that the majority of Scots feel the term is “unacceptable”.
To further add to the SNP’s embarrassment, it can also be revealed Mr O’Hara once described ex-Celtic striker Maurice Johnston as a “rat” who should not “show his face” in Glasgow.
Johnston became the highest-profile Roman Catholic to play for Rangers.
Last night, political opponents and anti-sectarian campaigners blasted the slurs as “entirely unacceptable”.
Mr O’Hara, 51, has stood for the SNP in two previous General Elections – in Springburn in 1987 and Glasgow Central in 1992.
xjsdriver said:
Jensen, I think it is you that is missing the point, one of the lines in the song has the line, we're up to our knees in Fenian (used by Rangers fans as a derogatory term for Roman Catholics) blood.
Now replace Fenian for derogatory term for Chinese, or derogatory term for Pakistani, or derogatory term for a black person, derogatory term for a Jewish person - are you getting the bigger picture now? It is simply not acceptable. Racial and religious persecution or abuse is vile and shouldn't be tolerated in a modern civilised society. I hope he appeals and gets his sentence doubled.
You're absolutely right. It's well known that sectarianism is Scotland's hidden shame (mainly West Coast) and while the headline may appear dramatic to those who are less familiar with this problem, I think this is the right outcome. Now replace Fenian for derogatory term for Chinese, or derogatory term for Pakistani, or derogatory term for a black person, derogatory term for a Jewish person - are you getting the bigger picture now? It is simply not acceptable. Racial and religious persecution or abuse is vile and shouldn't be tolerated in a modern civilised society. I hope he appeals and gets his sentence doubled.
xjsdriver said:
Which would be funny on several counts, not least because they will have to pen some new ditties to sing at matches - they thought they might romp to victory in the league this season and two little teams from Edinburgh seem intent on keeping them in Division 1 for a further season. 
Oi - less of the "little teams" - I'm a Hibbee. simoid said:
It really is a strange kettle of fish. I dont even know what's illegal.
The song? The tune? The words? Or is it only if you choose all three? And it has to be at/on the way to the football?
Can't get my head around it tbh. Not like we can start banning the word "Fenian" - it's used by the blue and green alike.
Och, here we go - the most naive Rangers fan on the planet?The song? The tune? The words? Or is it only if you choose all three? And it has to be at/on the way to the football?
Can't get my head around it tbh. Not like we can start banning the word "Fenian" - it's used by the blue and green alike.
Seriously simoid, don't you acknowledge the scourge of religious bigotry among many Old Firm fans?
BlackLabel said:
He should be struck off, in my view. Edinburger said:
simoid said:
It really is a strange kettle of fish. I dont even know what's illegal.
The song? The tune? The words? Or is it only if you choose all three? And it has to be at/on the way to the football?
Can't get my head around it tbh. Not like we can start banning the word "Fenian" - it's used by the blue and green alike.
Och, here we go - the most naive Rangers fan on the planet?The song? The tune? The words? Or is it only if you choose all three? And it has to be at/on the way to the football?
Can't get my head around it tbh. Not like we can start banning the word "Fenian" - it's used by the blue and green alike.
Seriously simoid, don't you acknowledge the scourge of religious bigotry among many Old Firm fans?
Yes.
As I said - I don't know what's illegal. Do you?
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
No.
Yes.
As I said - I don't know what's illegal. Do you?
Yes. It's perfectly clear. To those who've not been exposed to mindless bigotry I can understand the naïvety. Yes.
As I said - I don't know what's illegal. Do you?
But...
But when SNP supporters tell me i should be hung from a lamp post for voting tory this is perfectly fine
What a strange country scotland is turning into
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
No.
Yes.
As I said - I don't know what's illegal. Do you?
Yes. It's perfectly clear. To those who've not been exposed to mindless bigotry I can understand the naïvety. Yes.
As I said - I don't know what's illegal. Do you?
But...
Can you confirm what's illegal please. Thanks in advance.
simoid said:
Edinburger said:
simoid said:
No.
Yes.
As I said - I don't know what's illegal. Do you?
Yes. It's perfectly clear. To those who've not been exposed to mindless bigotry I can understand the naïvety. Yes.
As I said - I don't know what's illegal. Do you?
But...
Can you confirm what's illegal please. Thanks in advance.
In France and Germany, it is illegal to display swastikas in Nazi context*. What is about them that is illegal?
- The colours? Red, white and black? No, that would be silly.
- Are six lines illegal? No. Are they illegal if they're black lines? No.
- Are swastikas illegal? Not in every situation.
But put the whole thing together and you're going to upset a whole load of people. The shapes and colours are not illegal, but the representation and intention are. To employ such a device (symbol, flag or song) to purposefully upset someone marks you out as not a very nice person (polite version - I realise this may cause confusion among people who do not understand politeness and courtesy).
*Except in some circumstances.
Arguments about semantics for the sake of argument become circular. Simply: it has nothing but the intent to inflame to the point of retaliation that is illegal, seen as incitement. No matter if you rather pointlessly sing in your bath where neither the words nor the tune are illegal if you are alone, or at a football match where they are. To profess ignorance of such things is disingenuous, even a 1000 yard stare can be an incitement.
I can't find any evidence of arrests for the chanting of "sheep shagging b
ds" towards highland or Welsh fans.
It's peculiar world we live in where you're seemingly permitted to offend some football fans but not others.
Perhaps I am naive but I don't believe that anyone who sings the Billy Boys with the line about Fenian blood actually wants to seek out Irish/Catholics and murder them. Just like nobody wants to slay an English army because they are singing Flower of Scotland.
Who DOESN'T sing songs at football matches to offend or annoy the opposition? I suppose it's just an exercise in whataboutery where eventually we'll only be allowed to applaud at football grounds. But obviously not in a rhythm that might offend someone.
ds" towards highland or Welsh fans.It's peculiar world we live in where you're seemingly permitted to offend some football fans but not others.
Perhaps I am naive but I don't believe that anyone who sings the Billy Boys with the line about Fenian blood actually wants to seek out Irish/Catholics and murder them. Just like nobody wants to slay an English army because they are singing Flower of Scotland.
Who DOESN'T sing songs at football matches to offend or annoy the opposition? I suppose it's just an exercise in whataboutery where eventually we'll only be allowed to applaud at football grounds. But obviously not in a rhythm that might offend someone.
Edited by simoid on Thursday 30th April 10:17
Thorodin said:
Arguments about semantics for the sake of argument become circular. Simply: it has nothing but the intent to inflame to the point of retaliation that is illegal, seen as incitement. No matter if you rather pointlessly sing in your bath where neither the words nor the tune are illegal if you are alone, or at a football match where they are. To profess ignorance of such things is disingenuous, even a 1000 yard stare can be an incitement.
has anyone been jailed for a thousand yard stare?or for singing 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough'?
or shirt off, gesturing "you are all w
kers" as I've seen at football 
simoid said:
I can't find any evidence of arrests for the chanting of "sheep shagging bds" towards highland or Welsh fans.
It's peculiar world we live in where you're seemingly permitted to offend some football fans but not others.
Perhaps I am naive but I don't believe that anyone who sings the Billy Boys with the line about Fenian blood actually wants to seek out Irish/Catholics and murder them. Just like nobody wants to slay an English army because they are singing Flower of Scotland.
Who DOESN'T sing songs at football matches to offend or annoy the opposition? I suppose it's just an exercise in whataboutery where eventually we'll only be allowed to applaud at football grounds. But obviously not in a rhythm that might offend someone.
I think it's naive (although it sounds more like rather strained "innocence") - yes, I sincerely doubt most people who sings the song wants to murder Catholics, but the point is there has been a huge amount of violence and death due to this divide. I'm not aware of any murders or bombings by or against the Scottish Highlanders or the Welsh due to derogatory slurs about farmyard activities.ds" towards highland or Welsh fans.It's peculiar world we live in where you're seemingly permitted to offend some football fans but not others.
Perhaps I am naive but I don't believe that anyone who sings the Billy Boys with the line about Fenian blood actually wants to seek out Irish/Catholics and murder them. Just like nobody wants to slay an English army because they are singing Flower of Scotland.
Who DOESN'T sing songs at football matches to offend or annoy the opposition? I suppose it's just an exercise in whataboutery where eventually we'll only be allowed to applaud at football grounds. But obviously not in a rhythm that might offend someone.
Edited by simoid on Thursday 30th April 10:17
Underestimating the Catholic/Protestant troubles is naive at best, ignorant at worst (actually, downright malicious at worst).
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