Shocking footage - US Cops take down man...

Shocking footage - US Cops take down man...

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skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
I'm with the police on this one...

They asked him to drop the screwdriver, you can hear them plead as his mum yell's at him.

If someone lunges at me with a screwdriver, I will defend myself.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
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Pesty said:
Good shoot he lunged.

What should they do let him stab them?

La Liga said:
The man's movement isn't quite captured at 00:25 as in, 'does he lunge forward at the second officer'?

Regardless of the threat or perception of the threat, one of them must have been able to draw their Taser rather than their sidearm.
Tazers don't always work.

Don't want to get shot don't lung at a policeman with a weapon in your hand. Yes it's very sad and the guy had issues. But don't blame cops for protecting themselves.
There's a very high probability of them working at that proximity unless you miss.

Two officers. One can try the less lethal option, the other a lethal one if that fails.




Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
A contributing factor to this is possibly that the US has some kind of 'care in the community' arrangement that means mentally ill people find themselves in this scenario, rather than being looked after in an institution designed to deal with them.

Mr_B

10,480 posts

242 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
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It's interesting how it goes from very calm to gunshot in 2 seconds. Perhaps in an ideal world the Policeman would have regarded a screwdriver a lesser threat enough for a taser, but for whatever reason they didn't. Kinda goes to show how quickly things can change. Also interesting they are wearing body cameras and obviously aware of this, so not quite like a Rodney King beating where they think they can get away with it and where the truth comes out later. You'd be a brave man to argue there was no threat and its simply the Police enjoying open season on black guys.

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
La Liga said:
here's a very high probability of them working at that proximity unless you miss.

Two officers. One can try the less lethal option, the other a lethal one if that fails.
By the time they have realised it hasn't worked he would be on top of one and the other wouldn't be able to shoot.

It's a stty situation to be in, even his mum says he's off the something He can't have just been calm he must have been kicking off proper for her to call the cops.

I wonder why he went to the door with a screwdriver in his hand he knew it was cops. Was he doing some diy? No, so he may have been wanting suicide by cop or to do them harm.

okgo

37,841 posts

197 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
skyrover said:
I'm with the police on this one...

They asked him to drop the screwdriver, you can hear them plead as his mum yell's at him.

If someone lunges at me with a screwdriver, I will defend myself.
How hard is it to shoot someone in the leg for gods sake!

North West Tom

11,511 posts

176 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
I'm interested in how the American police are trained to respond to these situations. Are they taught to panic and shout things when they see a hint of a threat? The guy shouldn't have 'lunged' at them, but his death could have been avoided. Taser? Pepper spray? I understand that quick thinking is needed, and instinct may be just to choose the easy option. There were barely 10 seconds between the lady opening the door and her son being shot dead.

Also, the guy being mentally ill is irrelevant. You don't have to be mentally ill to be a nutter. As someone commented earlier, acting cooperative and understanding may be a trap, and they can't take any chances anymore.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
Pesty said:
By the time they have realised it hasn't worked he would be on top of one and the other wouldn't be able to shoot.

It's a stty situation to be in, even his mum says he's off the something He can't have just been calm he must have been kicking off proper for her to call the cops.
You receive very quick feedback if a Taser hasn't worked. You can always withdraw and draw weapons to increase the reaction gap.

Why not draw it straight away? If you know you're dealing with a mental health patient (I presume they were aware of this prior to attending) and they are stood at the door with a potential weapon, why not draw it when you're doing your verbal commands? Preparation and anticipation.

Pesty said:
I wonder why he went to the door with a screwdriver in his hand he knew it was cops. Was he doing some diy? No, so he may have been wanting suicide by cop or to do them harm.
Who knows? Especially with someone with mental health issues.

okgo said:
How hard is it to shoot someone in the leg for gods sake!
It's never a realistic option for many reasons. Always aim for the centre of mass.



skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
okgo said:
skyrover said:
I'm with the police on this one...

They asked him to drop the screwdriver, you can hear them plead as his mum yell's at him.

If someone lunges at me with a screwdriver, I will defend myself.
How hard is it to shoot someone in the leg for gods sake!
You don't shoot to maim when defending yourself. They are trained to put the assailant down as quickly and efficiently as possible.

Hugo a Gogo

23,378 posts

232 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
so what would unarmed UK cops do?

skyrover

12,668 posts

203 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
Hugo a Gogo said:
so what would unarmed UK cops do?
Take a screwdriver to the head most likely

okgo

37,841 posts

197 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
Hugo a Gogo said:
so what would unarmed UK cops do?
Batton to the face while wearing a stab vest.

What the hell is a fat old fk going to do with a 3 inch screwdriver when you have two big police men who I presume wear vests too. Its pathetic that they react in this manner. Don't get me wrong I don't really care what they do in their own country, its laughable what they will kill people over, but in the interests of debate I just cannot see how there was not another option there that wasn't fatal.

Hugo a Gogo

23,378 posts

232 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
how about a baton to the face?

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
Esseesse said:
A contributing factor to this is possibly that the US has some kind of 'care in the community' arrangement that means mentally ill people find themselves in this scenario, rather than being looked after in an institution designed to deal with them.
That's a polite way of putting it. Many, especially the poor, are probably just forgotten about. Mental health care in America (or over here) isn't exactly a priority.

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
Hugo a Gogo said:
so what would unarmed UK cops do?
You may send a Taser resource if you have information beforehand he has possession of a weapon / potential weapon. If not it'll most likely be a resource without one, and it could well be a single-crewed resource.

1) Taser (if they're armed with one).

2) Spray / baton (neither are that good).

3) Hands-on.

I expect 3 would be the most likely. I'd probably take 3 over 2.





Hugo a Gogo

23,378 posts

232 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
you hear occasionally about 'officer attacked with screwdriver' and I did see a recent 'cops with cameras' show where the officer got hit with a key right in the face, which was very nasty - but I'd imagine baton training would involve just this sort of thing, wouldn't it?

a strike to the arm of the person holding a small weapon like that, some sort of arm block

when you see these US cops start from a position of 'guns out and pointing' they have nowhere else to go from that, no other means of defence

Thorodin

2,459 posts

132 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
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I wonder if the attending officers had any previous intel on the deceased and whether the chap had any previous form in those circumstances, resulting in hyper vigilance.

Esseesse

8,969 posts

207 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
Esseesse said:
A contributing factor to this is possibly that the US has some kind of 'care in the community' arrangement that means mentally ill people find themselves in this scenario, rather than being looked after in an institution designed to deal with them.
That's a polite way of putting it. Many, especially the poor, are probably just forgotten about. Mental health care in America (or over here) isn't exactly a priority.
Yes I'm sure. What I wrote reads like it's what I believe, it was an assumption because he was at home with his mum.

Baryonyx

17,990 posts

158 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
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That looked reasonable. They were presented with a threat, they dealt with it effectively. They gave fair warning.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Wednesday 18th March 2015
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The police say that they were called to the house because the man's mother had told them he was off his schizophrenia medication and was making violent threats. They may have been anticipating a threat. That doesn't really alter the question of whether they should have used a less lethal weapon, but may have affected their reaction.