Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(
Discussion
cardigankid said:
This.
What don't you understand?
Why your mum lets you up this late on a schoolnight?What don't you understand?
Or maybe how you think Germany returning to the Third Reich will improve passenger safety,
when the last time the Luftwaffe were in charge of European skies you could only get a one way ticket to Berlin on a night flight.
Although if you were Jewish you did get a complimentary hotel stay on arrival, but the showers weren't to be recommended.
cardigankid said:
danjama said:
A job that is reponsible for human lives should not be carried out by a depressive personality. End of, regardless of whether it lasted for 2 days in 1962 or 6 months in 2010.
This.What don't you understand?
nyxster said:
cardigankid said:
This.
What don't you understand?
Why your mum lets you up this late on a schoolnight?What don't you understand?
Or maybe how you think Germany returning to the Third Reich will improve passenger safety,
when the last time the Luftwaffe were in charge of European skies you could only get a one way ticket to Berlin on a night flight.
Although if you were Jewish you did get a complimentary hotel stay on arrival, but the showers weren't to be recommended.
What he was agreeing with was - A job that is responsible for human lives should not be carried out by a depressive personality. End of, regardless of whether it lasted for 2 days in 1962 or 6 months in 2010.
Is that unreasonable as a premise?
I have lurked a long time and the selective sniping of people because they make silly one liners in otherwise reasonable arguments is a bit daft really, here and on this topic, it is just crass - in my personal opinion.
GloverMart said:
Wacky Racer said:
This.
I used to look forward to going on a plane, a bit of an adventure once a year.
Now, I holiday in the UK, as the thought of being stuck in an airport for two hours, treated like a potential terrorist going through security, and sat next to some big fat munter, munching through six packets of crisps doesn't appeal.
You'll be fine, WR. I am scared of heights and haven't been abroad for eleven years. Go ahead, free yourself! I used to look forward to going on a plane, a bit of an adventure once a year.
Now, I holiday in the UK, as the thought of being stuck in an airport for two hours, treated like a potential terrorist going through security, and sat next to some big fat munter, munching through six packets of crisps doesn't appeal.
Benidorm here I come.
eharding said:
You seem very passionate about this. Do you have a personal history of depression that is under-pinning your argument?
No I don't. What do I seem passionate about? Preserving the lives of hundreds of innocent people meekly travelling between destinations? You have a problem with that?You completely avoided answering my scenario though, well done.
ETA: I would hope we all here agree with my premise laid out on previous page of posts and quoted above!
Edited by danjama on Thursday 26th March 23:02
racinghep said:
Surely missing out the post before is a bit off here no?
What he was agreeing with was - A job that is responsible for human lives should not be carried out by a depressive personality. End of, regardless of whether it lasted for 2 days in 1962 or 6 months in 2010.
Is that unreasonable as a premise?
I have lurked a long time and the selective sniping of people because they make silly one liners in otherwise reasonable arguments is a bit daft really, here and on this topic, it is just crass - in my personal opinion.
Yes, it's unreasonable. Roughly seven to ten percent of people in any given year have some kind of depressive episode. It's the leading cause of disability - any disability - in adults under the age of 45 in the USA.What he was agreeing with was - A job that is responsible for human lives should not be carried out by a depressive personality. End of, regardless of whether it lasted for 2 days in 1962 or 6 months in 2010.
Is that unreasonable as a premise?
I have lurked a long time and the selective sniping of people because they make silly one liners in otherwise reasonable arguments is a bit daft really, here and on this topic, it is just crass - in my personal opinion.
To put it another way, if you banned everyone with a history of depression from those jobs, you'd likely end up with a very small pool of applicants.
davepoth said:
Yes, it's unreasonable. Roughly seven to ten percent of people in any given year have some kind of depressive episode. It's the leading cause of disability - any disability - in adults under the age of 45 in the USA.
To put it another way, if you banned everyone with a history of depression from those jobs, you'd likely end up with a very small pool of applicants.
Oh dear.To put it another way, if you banned everyone with a history of depression from those jobs, you'd likely end up with a very small pool of applicants.
davepoth said:
racinghep said:
Surely missing out the post before is a bit off here no?
What he was agreeing with was - A job that is responsible for human lives should not be carried out by a depressive personality. End of, regardless of whether it lasted for 2 days in 1962 or 6 months in 2010.
Is that unreasonable as a premise?
I have lurked a long time and the selective sniping of people because they make silly one liners in otherwise reasonable arguments is a bit daft really, here and on this topic, it is just crass - in my personal opinion.
Yes, it's unreasonable. Roughly seven to ten percent of people in any given year have some kind of depressive episode. It's the leading cause of disability - any disability - in adults under the age of 45 in the USA.What he was agreeing with was - A job that is responsible for human lives should not be carried out by a depressive personality. End of, regardless of whether it lasted for 2 days in 1962 or 6 months in 2010.
Is that unreasonable as a premise?
I have lurked a long time and the selective sniping of people because they make silly one liners in otherwise reasonable arguments is a bit daft really, here and on this topic, it is just crass - in my personal opinion.
To put it another way, if you banned everyone with a history of depression from those jobs, you'd likely end up with a very small pool of applicants.
For my part, I would have to say no.
racinghep said:
So you would be happy to be under the sole control, with all of your nearest and dearest, wife, children, parents, best friends etc of a person that had any sort of history of depressive past?
For my part, I would have to say no.
I'm glad to see somebody agreeing with me For my part, I would have to say no.
I don't think i'm being idealistic or unfair. I just read a disturbing quote that aircrew suffer from a similar rate of depression as the general public!
This is just tragic IMO.
racinghep said:
So you would be happy to be under the sole control, with all of your nearest and dearest, wife, children, parents, best friends etc of a person that had any sort of history of depressive past?
For my part, I would have to say no.
But there are many ways of skinning a cat.For my part, I would have to say no.
I would suggest providing support to those in need whilst bringing in rules that state there must be two people on the flight deck at all times would most probably result in this sort of tragedy never occurring again.
Rather than just barring every slightly depressive person from taking certain jobs - which would only serve to make those people hide their illness.
jammy_basturd said:
It's almost as if they are recruited from the same pool of people that serves the general public.
Oh don't be so simplistic!There are not so many pilots required that they can't be a little more selective during recruitment! That's not difficult to contemplate is it?
jammy_basturd said:
racinghep said:
So you would be happy to be under the sole control, with all of your nearest and dearest, wife, children, parents, best friends etc of a person that had any sort of history of depressive past?
For my part, I would have to say no.
But there are many ways of skinning a cat.For my part, I would have to say no.
I would suggest providing support to those in need whilst bringing in rules that state there must be two people on the flight deck at all times would most probably result in this sort of tragedy never occurring again.
Rather than just barring every slightly depressive person from taking certain jobs - which would only serve to make those people hide their illness.
So would you also agree that a confessed person with attraction to children should be allowed to teach if there is always a classroom assistant with them? Would you be happy for them to teach your child?
I know this is a Daily Wail esque example and yes I am being deliberately OTT. However it is to all intents and purposes the same logic.
jammy_basturd said:
But there are many ways of skinning a cat.
I would suggest providing support to those in need whilst bringing in rules that state there must be two people on the flight deck at all times would most probably result in this sort of tragedy never occurring again.
Rather than just barring every slightly depressive person from taking certain jobs - which would only serve to make those people hide their illness.
See this is exactly what I am contesting. With a job with such importance and responsibility as piloting a commercial jet, there should be nobody recruited with any kind of history! There's just no need for it IMO.I would suggest providing support to those in need whilst bringing in rules that state there must be two people on the flight deck at all times would most probably result in this sort of tragedy never occurring again.
Rather than just barring every slightly depressive person from taking certain jobs - which would only serve to make those people hide their illness.
I'm not saying it would be possible to achieve this in the current world climate, but it's my opinion. Take that FWIW.
Take this as evidence, quoted from PPRUNE:
"I have been following this thread as a non-pilot and although I have no experience whatsoever on a/c mechanics, I felt like I had to react on the FOs MH postulation.
I can understand the disbelief towards a person taking others with him in a suicide scenario. However, as a person who has suffered a severe clinical depression at one point in his life I can definitely tell you that this causes you such amounts of struggle and pain that your only thought is to make it stop, completely clouding your vision on the effects this might have on others.
Another problem that might occur with such a severe depression are psychotic features/episodes, which might not be the same as full blown psychosis and a complete loss of reality, but can significantly skew your view on reality although you still seem to function normally on the outside.
Furthermore, I had no real problems in my life so its almost impossible to tell the cause of the hypothetical depression if he never outed this to a second party, so I would suggest stopping the speculation on that part.
While I have never experienced the urge to take anyone with me even in my heaviest thoughts, I'm trying to tell you that its totally possible for a non-psychopath to perform such an act, when he has lost the power to fight his depression which I believe could be sudden. Saying "everyone has felt down at one point" is completely rubbish compared to a severe clinical depression which can still make you act normal to others.
This does not in any case mean I'm trying to talk the blame of him may the suicide scenario be true. A depression does not appear in an instant and he should have been struggling longer and should have seeked help, whatever consequences that may have had for his career. Now 149 others do not have a future anymore."
Would you want a person who would fall in to the above description, to be in charge of a commercial jet carrying your family?
"I have been following this thread as a non-pilot and although I have no experience whatsoever on a/c mechanics, I felt like I had to react on the FOs MH postulation.
I can understand the disbelief towards a person taking others with him in a suicide scenario. However, as a person who has suffered a severe clinical depression at one point in his life I can definitely tell you that this causes you such amounts of struggle and pain that your only thought is to make it stop, completely clouding your vision on the effects this might have on others.
Another problem that might occur with such a severe depression are psychotic features/episodes, which might not be the same as full blown psychosis and a complete loss of reality, but can significantly skew your view on reality although you still seem to function normally on the outside.
Furthermore, I had no real problems in my life so its almost impossible to tell the cause of the hypothetical depression if he never outed this to a second party, so I would suggest stopping the speculation on that part.
While I have never experienced the urge to take anyone with me even in my heaviest thoughts, I'm trying to tell you that its totally possible for a non-psychopath to perform such an act, when he has lost the power to fight his depression which I believe could be sudden. Saying "everyone has felt down at one point" is completely rubbish compared to a severe clinical depression which can still make you act normal to others.
This does not in any case mean I'm trying to talk the blame of him may the suicide scenario be true. A depression does not appear in an instant and he should have been struggling longer and should have seeked help, whatever consequences that may have had for his career. Now 149 others do not have a future anymore."
Would you want a person who would fall in to the above description, to be in charge of a commercial jet carrying your family?
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