Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(

[CAPP0]

Digga said:

Anyway, I can offer the solution in one word: pissbottles. A two litre pop bottle each for the aircrew and no one even needs to leave their seat.

Going to need built-in commodes as well, then, just in case...

[Puggit]

Telegraph said:

The captain locked out of the cockpit of the Germanwings plane that crashed in the French Alps used an axe to try and force his way back in, German daily Bild said on Friday, citing security sources.

...

This could not be immediately confirmed, but a spokesman for Germanwings confirmed to news agency AFP that an axe was on board the aircraft.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11491587/Airbus-A320-crashes-in-French-Alps-with-148-people-on-board-live.html

[steveT350C]

Police have found something 'significant' at Lubitz' house

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ger...

[RobinOakapple]

SilverSixer said:

Because a suicide plan involving the off-chance that someone else might need a wee in a 2 hour window is highly dubious. It's not a very good plan, is it? If you really want to off yourself, you won't formulate a plan reliant on someone else needing a slash. Suicides by their nature tend to involve people taking full control of their own situation, not relying one someone else's bladder.

Suicides can sometimes be quite impulsive. Their desire to do the deed can wax and wane, when they are at a low ebb AND the opportunity presents itself, then sometimes they will take the opportunity. They don't always plan it.

[JuniorD]

Digga said:

The absurd tragedy of 150 people wasting at least 30 minutes of the last few hours of their lives going through the charade of airport 'security', when all alone the liability is within the crew is horrendous.

Anyway, I can offer the solution in one word: pissbottles. A two litre pop bottle each for the aircrew and no one even needs to leave their seat.

Great idea! An while the female pilot is perched squatting over her bottle and her colleague is looking out the side window whistling, who's going to scan the instruments?

[SilverSixer]

RobinOakapple said:

SilverSixer said:

Because a suicide plan involving the off-chance that someone else might need a wee in a 2 hour window is highly dubious. It's not a very good plan, is it? If you really want to off yourself, you won't formulate a plan reliant on someone else needing a slash. Suicides by their nature tend to involve people taking full control of their own situation, not relying one someone else's bladder.

Suicides can sometimes be quite impulsive. Their desire to do the deed can wax and wane, when they are at a low ebb AND the opportunity presents itself, then sometimes they will take the opportunity. They don't always plan it.

No doubt. But how about mass murderers? Do they suddenly snap? I guess they do, Hungerford and the like.

I suppose I'm so baffled as it makes no sense to me whatsoever. But I'm not mentally ill at the moment.

[Stevanos]

I think there are 3 main areas that things need to be looked at...

1. Mental health screening and more rigorous checks and background searches. (might not be 100% effective)

2. Re-design of the door so it can be opened no matter what by the authorised crew in an emergency.

3. Improved in-flight tracking and data transmission, upgrade of black boxes to include video footage.

[KTF]

Puggit said:

Telegraph said:

The captain locked out of the cockpit of the Germanwings plane that crashed in the French Alps used an axe to try and force his way back in, German daily Bild said on Friday, citing security sources.

...

This could not be immediately confirmed, but a spokesman for Germanwings confirmed to news agency AFP that an axe was on board the aircraft.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11491587/Airbus-A320-crashes-in-French-Alps-with-148-people-on-board-live.html

From Pprune there is an axe on board but it is in the cockpit for obvious reasons so I dont buy this.

[anonymous-user]

LittleEnus said:

I am NOT putting down pilots, I am just adding perspective.

Of course you are putting down pilots you said they were "glorified bus drivers"

Why on earth do you feel the need to "add perspective"? What perspective is required? Nobody was saying being a pilot was an amazing job.

For you to say they are "glorified bus drivers" is clearly a statement made by you to denigrate their profession.

[RobinOakapple]

Stevanos said:

I think there are 3 main areas that things need to be looked at...

1. Mental health screening and more rigorous checks and background searches. (might not be 100% effective)

2. Re-design of the door so it can be opened no matter what by the authorised crew in an emergency.

3. Improved in-flight tracking and data transmission, upgrade of black boxes to include video footage.

Then all the terrorist has to do is hold a gun to the head ( or some much valued part) of the authorised crew member, and he's in.

[Stevanos]

RobinOakapple said:

Then all the terrorist has to do is hold a gun to the head ( or some much valued part) of the authorised crew member, and he's in.

If a terrorist has a gun on the plane he can probably bring it down anyway.

[trashbat]

Guam said:

Classic helpful insult from someone who does not know the individual history of posters on this forum.
You assume that all those suggesting better controls and monitoring have no experience of MH issues personally.

Thats a big assumption, has it occurred to you that some may feel as they do because they have had personal experience of these issues?

Actually I'm relatively familiar with MH issues, and my O/H is a MH practitioner.

I'm simply suggesting that many of those who have a newly found appetite to do something about MH issues might be the same people who've been suggesting that sufferers should 'man up' or whatever else.

[LittleEnus]

el stovey said:

Of course you are putting down pilots you said they were "glorified bus drivers"

Why on earth do you feel the need to "add perspective"? What perspective is required? Nobody was saying being a pilot was an amazing job.

For you to say they are "glorified bus drivers" is clearly a statement made by you to denigrate their profession.

Oh, I think someone needs their medication.

Are you putting down bus drivers?

[Moonhawk]

Stevanos said:

2. Re-design of the door so it can be opened no matter what by the authorised crew in an emergency.

I guess it's catch 22.

The ability for the flight crew to lock the door from inside the cabin was presumably to prevent a hijacker compromising "authorised" personnel on the passenger side and forcing the door open.

For example - if the captain had come out and been taken hostage - should he have the ability to open the door from the outside overriding the person inside the cockpit?

There is no idea solution to this.

[RobinOakapple]

Stevanos said:

RobinOakapple said:

Then all the terrorist has to do is hold a gun to the head ( or some much valued part) of the authorised crew member, and he's in.

If a terrorist has a gun on the plane he can probably bring it down anyway.

Not necessarily, and that might not be his aim, but in any case, substitute gun with knife or some other weapon, even a high level of hand to hand fighting ability would do it.

[Digga]

CAPP0 said:

Digga said:

Anyway, I can offer the solution in one word: pissbottles. A two litre pop bottle each for the aircrew and no one even needs to leave their seat.

Going to need built-in commodes as well, then, just in case...

Again, the solution comes from our HGV driving friends (and the SAS); carrier bags.

[nyxster]

Guam said:

Classic helpful insult from someone who does not know the individual history of posters on this forum.
You assume that all those suggesting better controls and monitoring have no experience of MH issues personally.

Thats a big assumption, has it occurred to you that some may feel as they do because they have had personal experience of these issues?

Few people would argue that members of the SAS aren't some of the most mentally resilient individuals on the planet, they have to be to pass Selection. Yet suicide rates amongst former SAS guys is appallingly high.

If you take someone who is completely mentally fit and apply enough stress to them, many will break. Pilots and ATC staff are known to suffer from depression caused by work place stress.

It's not just about the stress of flying the plane. The rush to get to the airport on time, pressure to make up delays caused by tech issues or congestion, the constant threat of terrorism. Irregular shift patterns, night work, effects of timezone changes, vitamin b deficiencies from extended night flying. Irregular meal times.

I spent several months doing long haul travel and it was enough to trigger depressive bouts. modern air travel is stressful. And the constant turn and burn of low cost short haul is even worse.

Throw in a relationship break up, death of a family member, personal debt problems or insecurity over job prospects in a competitive industry and you are looking at the trigger conditions for a mental/nervous breakdown.

This isn't the first case; the investigation into the jet blue pilot who went berserk mid flight highlighted how much stress low cost carrier pilots are put under.

The correct course of action isn't to lock them up as CG suggested, its to accept this could happen to anyone of them and put in place proper support services like monitoring, counselling and mental wellbeing clinics to ensure they don't feel the need to hide it for fear of losing their jobs.

The very attitudes displayed here by the alpha male sorts suggesting mental breakdown is something to be dealt with like a crime, no doubt contributes to a culture where men feel unable to seek professional help.

Clearly if the airline was aware he was suffering long term issues, then there has been a clear failure in duty of care to him and the passengers to put him in a position where he can do harm. He should have been confined to ground duties and no doubt hard questions need to be asked by all airlines of what they can do to manage the risk. A simple call to his bosses from the fiance suggesting all wasn't well might have prevented this.

[RobinOakapple]

I expect as a result of this there will be more attention paid to the MH of the people involved. But it's well known that people can have MH issues and be very good at hiding them.

So in the end, people flying anywhere will have to accept, as I expect many of them already do, that there is a small chance that they might not get to their destination (for a number of possible reasons). But the risk is quite low and the perceived benefit quite high, so they will carry on doing it.

[anonymous-user]

LittleEnus said:

Oh, I think someone needs their medication.

Are you putting down bus drivers?

Perhaps you ought to go and "add perspective" somewhere else?

Your contribution to this thread has been minimal to say the least.

[SilverSixer]

Moonhawk said:

Stevanos said:

2. Re-design of the door so it can be opened no matter what by the authorised crew in an emergency.

I guess it's catch 22.

The ability for the flight crew to lock the door from inside the cabin was presumably to prevent a hijacker compromising "authorised" personnel on the passenger side and forcing the door open.

For example - if the captain had come out and been taken hostage - should he have the ability to open the door from the outside overriding the person inside the cockpit?

There is no idea solution to this.

Someone else said it already. Pissbottles. Pilot/co-pilot not to leave cockpit.