Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(

[Maxf]

Moonhawk said:

There is no idea solution to this.

Remote opening from the ground could work - if the cabin crew could speak to the ground, have a convincing argument for the door to be opened (perhaps verfified by radar data/fast jets)?

[anonymous-user]

A Mental Health MOT could easily be part of the pilots annual medical. The medical is between the regulator and the crew member not the airline. I doubt airlines will be able or willing to provide the resources to do it themselves.

Would a mental health MOT really pick up these issues though? Presumably a pilot would be unlikely to answer that they felt suicidal.

[Timmy40]

RobinOakapple said:

SilverSixer said:

Because a suicide plan involving the off-chance that someone else might need a wee in a 2 hour window is highly dubious. It's not a very good plan, is it? If you really want to off yourself, you won't formulate a plan reliant on someone else needing a slash. Suicides by their nature tend to involve people taking full control of their own situation, not relying one someone else's bladder.

Suicides can sometimes be quite impulsive. Their desire to do the deed can wax and wane, when they are at a low ebb AND the opportunity presents itself, then sometimes they will take the opportunity. They don't always plan it.

That's what I've been thinking. Perhaps it was initially an impulsive moment of madness, then having locked the door and committed himself to a course of action there was no going back.

[FrankAbagnale]

Oakey said:

You st in a newspaper, wrap it up like a parcel and throw it out of the window.

I guess The Sun has some purpose at last.

[richardxjr]

Oakey said:

Thinking about peoples comments about how his entire plan hinged on whether or not the pilot would leave the cabin has got me wondering if his original plan was to stuff the plane on landing, hence why he got the hump after the discussion on the landing plan. Then the Captain left to go to the toilet giving him another opportunity.

Perhaps there was no plan? Opportunity arose and he just thought 'fk it'

[LittleEnus]

Maxf said:

Remote opening from the ground could work - if the cabin crew could speak to the ground, have a convincing argument for the door to be opened (perhaps verfified by radar data/fast jets)?

Open to cyber threat I would imagine.

[RobinOakapple]

WinstonWolf said:

RobinOakapple said:

WinstonWolf said:

I wonder what he does

Having done a wide range of jobs, some at a professional level, and had several businesses, some of them quite surprising, I've learned not to set too much store by what people do at any one time

You'll understand when you've been here a while longer

I already understand why other people are interested, just saying not bothered myself.

[SpeckledJim]

Maxf said:

Moonhawk said:

There is no idea solution to this.

Remote opening from the ground could work - if the cabin crew could speak to the ground, have a convincing argument for the door to be opened (perhaps verfified by radar data/fast jets)?

So someone who isn't there and doesn't know what's going on decides whether to open the door or not?

That REALLY doesn't solve the problem.

[anonymous-user]

richardxjr said:

Perhaps there was no plan? Opportunity arose and he just thought 'fk it'

He wasn't really acting in a rational way was he? There's no reason his plan should be viewed as a well thought out and planned scheme.

He certainly could have crashed the aircraft much quicker than he did.

[eharding]

Oakey said:

FrankAbagnale said:

What if you need a sh*t?!

You st in a newspaper, wrap it up like a parcel and throw it out of the window.

...at which point we're back to the emergency decompression scenario.

Anyway, if you mandate that as SOP for the airlines, that's *really* going to please the neighbours of those MS flight-sim geeks who strive for maximum realism in their spare-bedroom simulators.

[Moonhawk]

SpeckledJim said:

Maxf said:

Moonhawk said:

There is no idea solution to this.

Remote opening from the ground could work - if the cabin crew could speak to the ground, have a convincing argument for the door to be opened (perhaps verfified by radar data/fast jets)?

So someone who isn't there and doesn't know what's going on decides whether to open the door or not?

That REALLY doesn't solve the problem.

Indeed. Like I said - no ideal solution. Whatever is put in place will necessarily involve compromise and balancing risk.

[anonymous-user]

SpeckledJim said:

So someone who isn't there and doesn't know what's going on decides whether to open the door or not?

That REALLY doesn't solve the problem.

It doesn't really matter if a crew member is there or if another pilot is there. If the controls are in front of you, you can crash the aircraft.

[Wrathalanche]

LittleEnus said:

Why do the press keep saying the passengers would have had no idea until the last moments? Surely this is to try and make people feel better? I would imagine that it was 8 mins of absolute terror on board that stricken jet.

Still can't quite get over it.

My thoughts are that even the pilot may not have really known what was going on, or at least didn't want to expect the worst. He could probably tell the plane was descending and knew fine well it shouldn't be. The passengers probably wouldn't care - if I was on a plane and I felt a bit of descent shortly into the flight, I'd just assume the pilots knew what they were doing and were avoiding some weather pattern or whatever and get on with my in-flight distractions.

But as soon as the pilot showed panic, all hell would break loose, so I could imagine a pilot in that situation trying to remain calm as much as possible for the passenger's sake. When it came time to take drastic action, I suppose a pilot could say something along the lines of "This is dreadfully embarassing but the cockpit door has become stuck - don't worry, the co-pilot is in control and we will be safe, but I'm going to need to try to bash this door in, just in-case", at which point he could hack away at it till his heart's content, and some passengers may well still feel like things are OK.

But as soon as the plane exits the cloud and the passengers can relate their heading with the ground, thats when there's no way for the pilot to hide what is really happening.

I hate all the supposition, and I usually try to avoid it. I'm not claiming this is "my" turn of events. I'm just suggesting that there maybe is a possibility that the passengers were fairly unaware until late on as a result of quick thinking by the pilot. We'll never know though.

[SpeckledJim]

el stovey said:

SpeckledJim said:

So someone who isn't there and doesn't know what's going on decides whether to open the door or not?

That REALLY doesn't solve the problem.

It doesn't really matter if a crew member is there or if another pilot is there. If the controls are in front of you, you can crash the aircraft.

Quite agree, hence my biro comment.

[nyxster]

eharding said:

...at which point we're back to the emergency decompression scenario.

Anyway, if you mandate that as SOP for the airlines, that's *really* going to please the neighbours of those MS flight-sim geeks who strive for maximum realism in their spare-bedroom simulators.

[eharding]

el stovey said:

SpeckledJim said:

So someone who isn't there and doesn't know what's going on decides whether to open the door or not?

That REALLY doesn't solve the problem.

It doesn't really matter if a crew member is there or if another pilot is there. If the controls are in front of you, you can crash the aircraft.

AF 447 being a prime example.

[Sheepshanks]

el stovey said:

SpeckledJim said:

So someone who isn't there and doesn't know what's going on decides whether to open the door or not?

That REALLY doesn't solve the problem.

It doesn't really matter if a crew member is there or if another pilot is there. If the controls are in front of you, you can crash the aircraft.

Surely the best solution is to get rid of pilots altogether? Fly the aircraft from the ground, mainly automatically.

[PurpleTurtle]

Digga said:

CAPP0 said:

Digga said:

Anyway, I can offer the solution in one word: pissbottles. A two litre pop bottle each for the aircrew and no one even needs to leave their seat.

Going to need built-in commodes as well, then, just in case...

Again, the solution comes from our HGV driving friends (and the SAS); carrier bags.

"Good morning Ladies and Gents, it's your captain Nigel here again, we've now reached cruising altitude and my colleague Julian will be taking the controls as we head on home to London. There might be a little turbulence up ahead, or it could just be the sound of me stting in a carrier bag. We'll get back to you with updates later on, in the meantime, push your seat back and annoy the person behind you"

[LittleEnus]

Wrathalanche said:

My thoughts are that even the pilot may not have really known what was going on, or at least didn't want to expect the worst. He could probably tell the plane was descending and knew fine well it shouldn't be. The passengers probably wouldn't care - if I was on a plane and I felt a bit of descent shortly into the flight, I'd just assume the pilots knew what they were doing and were avoiding some weather pattern or whatever and get on with my in-flight distractions.

But as soon as the pilot showed panic, all hell would break loose, so I could imagine a pilot in that situation trying to remain calm as much as possible for the passenger's sake. When it came time to take drastic action, I suppose a pilot could say something along the lines of "This is dreadfully embarassing but the cockpit door has become stuck - don't worry, the co-pilot is in control and we will be safe, but I'm going to need to try to bash this door in, just in-case", at which point he could hack away at it till his heart's content, and some passengers may well still feel like things are OK.

But as soon as the plane exits the cloud and the passengers can relate their heading with the ground, thats when there's no way for the pilot to hide what is really happening.

I hate all the supposition, and I usually try to avoid it. I'm not claiming this is "my" turn of events. I'm just suggesting that there maybe is a possibility that the passengers were fairly unaware until late on as a result of quick thinking by the pilot. We'll never know though.

I really hope you are right

[Sargeant Orange]

The reason this tragic event is so unfathomable is that we can't put ourselves in the mindset of someone suffering mental health issues, so we have no idea what he was thinking at that time. He may well have been waiting months for that one opportunity when the pilot left him in control, or it was just off the cuff & he thought this doesn't seem like a bad way to end things.