Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(
Discussion
wc98 said:
Legend83 said:
Interesting post on PPrune:
to be fair,large parts of that description could be describing many german professionals i have met.PPrune said:
I've been following this thread for a couple of days, but I haven't yet seen this particular argument (individual bits collated from numerous sources including the French BFMTV Live Feed):
1. Andreas Lubitz was a very intense young man. One of his friends from years ago said that "he would have died if he had failed to become a pilot". He clearly set himself very important goals which could not be missed or changed.
2. He was a perfectionist. This and 1. above are well-known causative factors in depression.
3. His severe depression led to a lengthy period off work. Lufthansa of course knew about this depression: this in itself would have been very difficult for him to accept.
3. His colleagues mocked him for having been a flight attendant for a period.
4. He wanted very much to go long-haul but was not accepted.
5. High intensity short-haul, for someone with Lubitz's make up. would soon become tedious, stressful and unsatisfying (as it did for me, and others I know). He could at this stage be thinking: "I sacrificed all of those years and efforts for this?" (as I regret to say I did).
6. Criticism from training captains would have been very difficult for him. Much more than for an easy going FO.
7. Any or all of the above could have led him to see a lapse back into severe depression as a fate worse than death. See 1. again.
There is a possibility than very driven highly perfectionist young men are not the ideal candidates for this career. I have flown with FOs like this, and it's not much fun, and doesn't make for a good flight deck environment . They often have a rigid view of what is correct and what is not, and rarely relax, which is contagious.
Some airlines put sociability at the top of the list of desired qualities when hiring. I'm guessing here, but perhaps LH doesn't?
If any of this turns out to be true, I wasn't far off in my theory.1. Andreas Lubitz was a very intense young man. One of his friends from years ago said that "he would have died if he had failed to become a pilot". He clearly set himself very important goals which could not be missed or changed.
2. He was a perfectionist. This and 1. above are well-known causative factors in depression.
3. His severe depression led to a lengthy period off work. Lufthansa of course knew about this depression: this in itself would have been very difficult for him to accept.
3. His colleagues mocked him for having been a flight attendant for a period.
4. He wanted very much to go long-haul but was not accepted.
5. High intensity short-haul, for someone with Lubitz's make up. would soon become tedious, stressful and unsatisfying (as it did for me, and others I know). He could at this stage be thinking: "I sacrificed all of those years and efforts for this?" (as I regret to say I did).
6. Criticism from training captains would have been very difficult for him. Much more than for an easy going FO.
7. Any or all of the above could have led him to see a lapse back into severe depression as a fate worse than death. See 1. again.
There is a possibility than very driven highly perfectionist young men are not the ideal candidates for this career. I have flown with FOs like this, and it's not much fun, and doesn't make for a good flight deck environment . They often have a rigid view of what is correct and what is not, and rarely relax, which is contagious.
Some airlines put sociability at the top of the list of desired qualities when hiring. I'm guessing here, but perhaps LH doesn't?
I've worked in Germany for years and never met anyone that fits that description. On the other hand in London with the stress of living and working there I've seen quite a few candidates that do.
NeMiSiS said:
But how anyone could take all those innocent men, women and children is completely wrong, but I do understand that sick people do outrageous things when they are ill, things that people who don’t have any understanding of mental heath issues will never be able to get a grip of, they will never understand.
You can read them on this thread, trying to understand, rejecting anything that doesn't make sense to them.
RobinOakapple said:
NeMiSiS said:
But how anyone could take all those innocent men, women and children is completely wrong, but I do understand that sick people do outrageous things when they are ill, things that people who don’t have any understanding of mental heath issues will never be able to get a grip of, they will never understand.
You can read them on this thread, trying to understand, rejecting anything that doesn't make sense to them.
I'm not remotely religious, but if I were, I'd be hoping there's a special place in Purgatory reserved for the pilot.
Want to kill yourself? Fair enough. Jump off a building, step out in front of a train, whatever. Just don't inflict the pain your family will be going through on the families of 150 innocents.
That takes a special kind of
.Has there been any information released about the captain.
I have not seen anything about him.
There a few threads on facebook asking why he has not been mentioned.
They are saying he should be recognised for attempting to regain entry to the cabin. Also that the focus should be on him rather than someone who killed 150
I have not seen anything about him.
There a few threads on facebook asking why he has not been mentioned.
They are saying he should be recognised for attempting to regain entry to the cabin. Also that the focus should be on him rather than someone who killed 150
baldy1926 said:
Has there been any information released about the captain.
I have not seen anything about him.
There a few threads on facebook asking why he has not been mentioned.
They are saying he should be recognised for attempting to regain entry to the cabin. Also that the focus should be on him rather than someone who killed 150
What did you expect him to do, take one of free seats, have a beer and enjoy the flight? I have not seen anything about him.
There a few threads on facebook asking why he has not been mentioned.
They are saying he should be recognised for attempting to regain entry to the cabin. Also that the focus should be on him rather than someone who killed 150
Mobile Chicane said:
At times in my life, I've been in very dark places. Dark enough to consider going down to the woods with a shotgun and just ending it all.
I'm not remotely religious, but if I were, I'd be hoping there's a special place in Purgatory reserved for the pilot.
Want to kill yourself? Fair enough. Jump off a building, step out in front of a train, whatever. Just don't inflict the pain your family will be going through on the families of 150 innocents.
That takes a special kind of.
or a special kind of situation that you've never experienced or come close to. Just because you think in your mind that you have been to a 'dark' place doesn't mean that it was remotely as 'dark' as he was experiencing.I'm not remotely religious, but if I were, I'd be hoping there's a special place in Purgatory reserved for the pilot.
Want to kill yourself? Fair enough. Jump off a building, step out in front of a train, whatever. Just don't inflict the pain your family will be going through on the families of 150 innocents.
That takes a special kind of
.baldy1926 said:
Has there been any information released about the captain.
I have not seen anything about him.
There a few threads on facebook asking why he has not been mentioned.
They are saying he should be recognised for attempting to regain entry to the cabin. Also that the focus should be on him rather than someone who killed 150
From browsing German news sites, he was Patrick S (German sites withhold surnames, I have seen his name but cannot find it now)I have not seen anything about him.
There a few threads on facebook asking why he has not been mentioned.
They are saying he should be recognised for attempting to regain entry to the cabin. Also that the focus should be on him rather than someone who killed 150
Patrick S was 43 years old, married with two young children. He had been a pilot for Lufthansa Group for ten years, flying for Condor and Lufthansa. He became an A320 Captain for GermanWings about a year ago. He had just over 6000 hours. A colleague described him as one of the best pilots in the company.
Edit: Sondenheimer
Nowt to relieve the sadness here.
Edited by Cobalt Blue on Friday 27th March 18:55
LucreLout said:
Cobalt Blue said:
Having a cabin crew member in the cockpit might -just- cause a suicidal pilot to re-think or delay, but is probably nothing more than a gimmick to reassure passengers.
Unless they start training the trolley dollies to do Brazilian jiu-jitsu, I can't imagine it achieving much.Silver993tt said:
Really,
I've worked in Germany for years and never met anyone that fits that description. On the other hand in London with the stress of living and working there I've seen quite a few candidates that do.
no problem deferring to your wider experience , just my own experience in an industry i was once involved in.I've worked in Germany for years and never met anyone that fits that description. On the other hand in London with the stress of living and working there I've seen quite a few candidates that do.
JensenA said:
Oh FFS. No one is to blame for this. All this talk is exactly what is causing is '£' sign to appear in the eyes of the Lawyers. The world had gone mad, everything that happens HAS to be somebody's fault! (otherwise who can we sue?)
only one person,the bloke that flew the plane into the mountain,no one else. Silver993tt said:
baldy1926 said:
Has there been any information released about the captain.
I have not seen anything about him.
There a few threads on facebook asking why he has not been mentioned.
They are saying he should be recognised for attempting to regain entry to the cabin. Also that the focus should be on him rather than someone who killed 150
What did you expect him to do, take one of free seats, have a beer and enjoy the flight? I have not seen anything about him.
There a few threads on facebook asking why he has not been mentioned.
They are saying he should be recognised for attempting to regain entry to the cabin. Also that the focus should be on him rather than someone who killed 150
Like the hero pilot who "bravely steered the plane away from tower blocks, to save the occupants", when all along most pilots actually prefer to land in a flat field than the side of a tower block....
All the talk of there having to be two crew members in the Cockpit at all times is all well and good. But I fear that if one of those two people decides they want to crash the plane I am sure they will find a way to do it. Perhaps whacking the other pilot over the head with something heavy and to hand.
One way or another it could still happen, if someone was so inclined.
One way or another it could still happen, if someone was so inclined.
Drclarke said:
All the talk of there having to be two crew members in the Cockpit at all times is all well and good. But I fear that if one of those two people decides they want to crash the plane I am sure they will find a way to do it. Perhaps whacking the other pilot over the head with something heavy and to hand.
One way or another it could still happen, if someone was so inclined.
If someone really wanted to do it then an extra person in the cabin might not help, but it's adding an extra layer in that might deter someone and tries to mitigate the risk. It's a simple thing to implement land already happening in the USOne way or another it could still happen, if someone was so inclined.
Mobile Chicane said:
At times in my life, I've been in very dark places. Dark enough to consider going down to the woods with a shotgun and just ending it all.
I'm not remotely religious, but if I were, I'd be hoping there's a special place in Purgatory reserved for the pilot.
Want to kill yourself? Fair enough. Jump off a building, step out in front of a train, whatever. Just don't inflict the pain your family will be going through on the families of 150 innocents.
That takes a special kind of.
This sums up my feelings on the matter almost entirely, if someone is feeling so hopeless and in despair that they wish to take their own life, then sorry, I don't condemn them for it, it's their decision.I'm not remotely religious, but if I were, I'd be hoping there's a special place in Purgatory reserved for the pilot.
Want to kill yourself? Fair enough. Jump off a building, step out in front of a train, whatever. Just don't inflict the pain your family will be going through on the families of 150 innocents.
That takes a special kind of
.However doing what this guy did and ending the lives of 150 innocent people is absolutely unforgivable and abhorrent to me.
JensenA said:
Oh FFS. No one is to blame for this. All this talk is exactly what is causing is '£' sign to appear in the eyes of the Lawyers. The world had gone mad, everything that happens HAS to be somebody's fault! (otherwise who can we sue?)
Wish I knew what you are on about. It is becoming increasingly clear that it was someone's fault. However someone else must have known or should have known that this man was mentally unstable, and the problem is that it is very hard to just sack people because you think they are the wrong stuff, which some people just are. That needs to be possible, and there need to be people prepared to do it, without being sued. We have all known people who are on the edge and either a danger to themselves and others. People who cannot deal with reality should be taken out of circulation and sent to Sierra Leone to deal with the Ebola crisis, then they might understand what real s
t is like, and come back better people.Furthermore, no excuse is acceptable for murdering 150 innocent people.
Lufthansa/German Wing to their eternal disgrace allowed a totally unsuitable individual access to the cockpit of an aircraft. This is likely to cost them a colossal amount of money. So it should.
cardigankid said:
We have all known people who are on the edge and either a danger to themselves and others. People who cannot deal with reality should be taken out of circulation and sent to Sierra Leone to deal with the Ebola crisis, then they might understand what real st is like, and come back better people.
Just to be clear: that's your idea of mental health treatment, is it?t is like, and come back better people.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff