Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(
Discussion
Rude Girl said:
garyhun said:
I've only had a very slight brush with someone with mental health issues - friend at college who tried to commit suicide. However, you really do not need personal experience to undertand it, just an empathetic personality.
Think of someone who has just broken their leg and cannot walk. If you think they should just get up and get on with things you obviously have no understanding of how the body works.
Now replace leg with brain. If you think someone with a mental health issue, a 'brain break' for want of a better term, should simply be able to snap out of it, then you have absolutely no idea what's going on.
I feel sorry for all involved in this tragedy.
I couldn't agree more. I have spent some time today thinking about the parents of those 16 children on that flight. And I have spent an equal amount of time thinking about the parents of that copilot. I work on the railway (such a 'popular' way to end the pain) and I so regularly hear about how *selfish* suicide victims are. What we forget is that these 'selfish individuals' are actually the victims of an illness or disease. They are not the perpetrators. This poor chap must also have been controlled by his demons. Think of someone who has just broken their leg and cannot walk. If you think they should just get up and get on with things you obviously have no understanding of how the body works.
Now replace leg with brain. If you think someone with a mental health issue, a 'brain break' for want of a better term, should simply be able to snap out of it, then you have absolutely no idea what's going on.
I feel sorry for all involved in this tragedy.
If the rest of us can't grasp even this small concept, then we as a society have no chance of ever contributing to fixing the problem of mental illness. If all we do is blame the victim, then we drive the victim to hide the illness, and therefore make them (and us) more vulnerable.
It's a tragedy for everyone on that flight, and their families. Including the poor tortured soul who hit the button.
I am always shocked by the lack of empathy that some people have for suicide victims.
40 years ago, I had a very dark period. At one point I tried to throw myself in front of a bus. At the time I had no idea that this might have inconvenienced the driver, or passengers. Fortunately, I was rugby tackled by a friend.
However, I don't think that I would have deliberately harmed others. So, I think that this chap wanted fame.
I've highlighted the word "think" because I cannot really remember how horrible that time was.
My life, apart from those few months, has been fantastic.
trashbat said:
cardigankid said:
We have all known people who are on the edge and either a danger to themselves and others. People who cannot deal with reality should be taken out of circulation and sent to Sierra Leone to deal with the Ebola crisis, then they might understand what real s
t is like, and come back better people.
Just to be clear: that's your idea of mental health treatment, is it?t is like, and come back better people.trashbat said:
ON a brighter note, going back to this from earlier:
I was on a flight from MUC to VIE when the crash happened on Tuesday.tvrolet said:
But from my perspective I just think this is going the wrong way. I'm a frequent flyer (50+ flights per year) and I think the flight crew (not just the cabin crew) need to better engage with the passengers for a start. I know we're mockingly called SLF - self loading freight - but we're not freight. We're people; with families and loved ones, hopes and aspirations. I want to know the flight crew appreciate who we are and engage with us. At least some flight crew bid welcome or goodbye at the cockpit door on embarkation or departure...but they should all do it. Sure I know they want to make sure their butts get there safe...but I want to know they're concerned about our butts too, and our well-being. Would this bloke have done it with his mother on board? What about if his best friend was there. What if he'd looked in to the eyes of the kids getting on? Who knows - but it sure isn't going to make things worse.
Well...Returning from PRG yesterday via ZRH on Swiss it was apparent that the crew were making themselves more visible both before takeoff and after landing.
I would echo comments that this could only be a good thing and will reinforce the link between the crew and passengers.
cardigankid said:
Lufthansa/German Wing to their eternal disgrace allowed a totally unsuitable individual access to the cockpit of an aircraft. This is likely to cost them a colossal amount of money. So it should.
That's the thing though, they didn't know.He shouldn't have been flying according to his Doctor, (if that turns out to be true), so they're not necessarily liable. (And I don't mean in a financial sense.)
cardigankid said:
Pretty well. I think that all the empathising is counterproductive. I don't mind helping people, but in the end they have simply got to get a grip. It is not the same as a dose of the flu.
Would you have the same view of someone with cancer - Get a grip? Depression is a disease, not a fking lifestyle choice.Rude Girl said:
garyhun said:
I've only had a very slight brush with someone with mental health issues - friend at college who tried to commit suicide. However, you really do not need personal experience to undertand it, just an empathetic personality.
Think of someone who has just broken their leg and cannot walk. If you think they should just get up and get on with things you obviously have no understanding of how the body works.
Now replace leg with brain. If you think someone with a mental health issue, a 'brain break' for want of a better term, should simply be able to snap out of it, then you have absolutely no idea what's going on.
I feel sorry for all involved in this tragedy.
I couldn't agree more. I have spent some time today thinking about the parents of those 16 children on that flight. And I have spent an equal amount of time thinking about the parents of that copilot. I work on the railway (such a 'popular' way to end the pain) and I so regularly hear about how *selfish* suicide victims are. What we forget is that these 'selfish individuals' are actually the victims of an illness or disease. They are not the perpetrators. This poor chap must also have been controlled by his demons. Think of someone who has just broken their leg and cannot walk. If you think they should just get up and get on with things you obviously have no understanding of how the body works.
Now replace leg with brain. If you think someone with a mental health issue, a 'brain break' for want of a better term, should simply be able to snap out of it, then you have absolutely no idea what's going on.
I feel sorry for all involved in this tragedy.
If the rest of us can't grasp even this small concept, then we as a society have no chance of ever contributing to fixing the problem of mental illness. If all we do is blame the victim, then we drive the victim to hide the illness, and therefore make them (and us) more vulnerable.
It's a tragedy for everyone on that flight, and their families. Including the poor tortured soul who hit the button.
? It's ok, you're 'ill'.Yet sometimes we need to call it how it is: an act of unspeakable, unforgivable evil.
Mobile Chicane said:
In the modern world we 'medicalise' everything. Act like a ? It's ok, you're 'ill'.
Yet sometimes we need to call it how it is: an act of unspeakable, unforgivable evil.
Aside from the fact that we don't actually say "it's OK", what is this 'evil', in your opinion?? It's ok, you're 'ill'.Yet sometimes we need to call it how it is: an act of unspeakable, unforgivable evil.
Where does it come from?
Is it a genetic trait, or what?
cardigankid said:
Pretty well. I think that all the empathising is counterproductive. I don't mind helping people, but in the end they have simply got to get a grip. It is not the same as a dose of the flu.
You really have no ideaNo wonder people find it hard to open up about mental health while this bulls
t attitude is allowed to fester trashbat said:
Mobile Chicane said:
In the modern world we 'medicalise' everything. Act like a ? It's ok, you're 'ill'.
Yet sometimes we need to call it how it is: an act of unspeakable, unforgivable evil.
Aside from the fact that we don't actually say "it's OK", what is this 'evil', in your opinion?? It's ok, you're 'ill'.Yet sometimes we need to call it how it is: an act of unspeakable, unforgivable evil.
Where does it come from?
Is it a genetic trait, or what?
Perhaps their experiences shaped them to become such, maybe not.
Either way, the end result is the same.
Mobile Chicane said:
Who can say. The nature/nurture debate rages. The pragmatist view would be that some people are just horrible and selfish.
Perhaps their experiences shaped them to become such, maybe not.
Either way, the end result is the same.
Not exactly - because one involves this thing that you can't alter, only hope to suppress, and the other involves a set of actions and ideas that you can challenge and remould.Perhaps their experiences shaped them to become such, maybe not.
Either way, the end result is the same.
If you write someone like this dead pilot off as evil, you might feel a bit better for a while, but you can bet that there is more of it out there that you don't know about, and you haven't learnt or changed anything.
Personally I don't think I believe in evil as anything other than a blunt adjective.
trashbat said:
ot exactly - because one involves this thing that you can't alter, only hope to suppress, and the other involves a set of actions and ideas that you can challenge and remould.
If you write someone like this dead pilot off as evil, you might feel a bit better for a while, but you can bet that there is more of it out there that you don't know about, and you haven't learnt or changed anything.
Personally I don't think I believe in evil as anything other than a blunt adjective.
Let's change 'evil' for 'malevolent' then.If you write someone like this dead pilot off as evil, you might feel a bit better for a while, but you can bet that there is more of it out there that you don't know about, and you haven't learnt or changed anything.
Personally I don't think I believe in evil as anything other than a blunt adjective.
trashbat said:
cardigankid said:
Pretty well. I think that all the empathising is counterproductive. I don't mind helping people, but in the end they have simply got to get a grip.
Congratulations, you're an idiot.
briang9 said:
what utter rubbish!!
apologies if you met the exact same people i did and formed a different opinion. just to be clear,this comment was not meant in a derogatory sense. they were all extremely focused and very,very good at their jobs. maybe the language difference did not help to convey the sense of fun /emotion they got from the job .trashbat said:
Big Rod said:
Let's change 'evil' for 'malevolent' then.
It makes no difference, it's just names. I'm not too bothered about which label gets used, just that the label is stuck over the much more complicated reality. It's only one step down from blaming God.User33678888 said:
I call bullst on being empathetic. This was murder. He intentionally killed 140+ others. If he wanted to commit suicide so much there are much better ways for everyone concerned.
Then you don't understand depression, you're trying to rationalize someone whose mindset doesn't understand or take into account the people in the back of the plane.t on being empathetic. This was murder. He intentionally killed 140+ others. If he wanted to commit suicide so much there are much better ways for everyone concerned. Dan_1981 said:
It was also mentioned on Radio 5 the other night the El Al have some method that allows the pilots access to their own facilities or an extra security door or something.
They look for the bomb, the bomber and the bomber's cousin! Security at Ben Gurion is extensive. It has taken me 2 hours just to get through the first checks before. In other airports they may do a cursory scan of luggage but I've had my hold luggage taken apart in front of me - and then had to repack it myself...
They have a very tangible threat though, so it is easier to justify than it would be for BA or Qantas.
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