Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(

Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(

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hidetheelephants

23,772 posts

192 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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Dr Jekyll said:
PPrune said:
There is a possibility than very driven highly perfectionist young men are not the ideal candidates for this career.
Remind me what it costs these days to get a CPL/IR? How does anyone who isn't highly driven with perfectionist tendencies get into an airliner cockpit?
If you like flying and have the money(probably around (~£80k once you add on the cost of living and sundries.) or access to credit the flying schools who offer integrated courses will relieve you of it, and unless you're a real donkey you'll come out the other end with a fATPL eventually.
Big Rod said:
trashbat said:
ot exactly - because one involves this thing that you can't alter, only hope to suppress, and the other involves a set of actions and ideas that you can challenge and remould.

If you write someone like this dead pilot off as evil, you might feel a bit better for a while, but you can bet that there is more of it out there that you don't know about, and you haven't learnt or changed anything.

Personally I don't think I believe in evil as anything other than a blunt adjective.
Let's change 'evil' for 'malevolent' then.
A more realistic change would perhaps be the human brain being overwhelmed by the monkey and lizard brains, robbing the pilot of empathy and rationality; medical science still doesn't know all about the finer points of how our brains work, which is a major reason why we don't have the ability to cure mental illness the way we can fix broken legs or a burst appendix.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Saturday 28th March 05:33

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
quotequote all
User33678888 said:
I call bullst on being empathetic. This was murder. He intentionally killed 140+ others. If he wanted to commit suicide so much there are much better ways for everyone concerned.
He's not acting rationally though, he's suffering from mental Illness.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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eldar said:
Would you have the same view of someone with cancer - Get a grip? Depression is a disease, not a fking lifestyle choice.
Look at this bloke, suffered from depression, didn't get proper help and support, thought he should keep flying and ended up killing loads of people.

Encouraging people who are suffering from mental illness to man up or labelling them as evil or trying to get them sacked is just going to increase the likelyhood of this happening again.

I wonder how many pilots going through divorce or some kind of terrible event at home will go into work instead of getting proper help due to media reports about this pilot having a history of mental illness and people calling for those suffering from depression to man up or worse, get the sack.

greygoose

8,224 posts

194 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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el stovey said:
eldar said:
Would you have the same view of someone with cancer - Get a grip? Depression is a disease, not a fking lifestyle choice.
Look at this bloke, suffered from depression, didn't get proper help and support, thought he should keep flying and ended up killing loads of people.

Encouraging people who are suffering from mental illness to man up or labelling them as evil or trying to get them sacked is just going to increase the likelyhood of this happening again.

I wonder how many pilots going through divorce or some kind of terrible event at home will go into work instead of getting proper help due to media reports about this pilot having a history of mental illness and people calling for those suffering from depression to man up or worse, get the sack.
Exactly, there was a pilot on the radio just now saying how pilots on Prozac were not allowed to fly in America for a while until the authorities decided that if someone requires the drug then it is better they take it than not do and go to work.

hornetrider

63,161 posts

204 months

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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Boozy said:
Then you don't understand depression, you're trying to rationalize someone whose mindset doesn't understand or take into account the people in the back of the plane.
How does this latest revelations fit?

Far from not taking into account the passengers, they were part of the plan. Does this fit with a sudden depression while on deck?
He's planned this for a while.

JensenA

5,671 posts

229 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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cardigankid said:
JensenA said:
Oh FFS. No one is to blame for this. All this talk is exactly what is causing is '£' sign to appear in the eyes of the Lawyers. The world had gone mad, everything that happens HAS to be somebody's fault! (otherwise who can we sue?)
Wish I knew what you are on about. It is becoming increasingly clear that it was someone's fault. However someone else must have known or should have known that this man was mentally unstable, and the problem is that it is very hard to just sack people because you think they are the wrong stuff, which some people just are. That needs to be possible, and there need to be people prepared to do it, without being sued.

We have all known people who are on the edge and either a danger to themselves and others. People who cannot deal with reality should be taken out of circulation and sent to Sierra Leone to deal with the Ebola crisis, then they might understand what real st is like, and come back better people.

Furthermore, no excuse is acceptable for murdering 150 innocent people.

Lufthansa/German Wing to their eternal disgrace allowed a totally unsuitable individual access to the cockpit of an aircraft. This is likely to cost them a colossal amount of money. So it should.
What am I on about? I'm talking about the opinions of people like you. Who think it is totally acceptable to always want to sue someone. This is no ones fault, apart from the man who flew the plane into the mountain.
I don't remember any posts you made on Forums highlighting the dangers of rouge pilots who might want to kill themselves. So perhaps it is to your eternal disgrace that you kept these thoughts to yourself, you could have saved the lives of 150 people if you had campaigned long and hard enough, shame on you. It's to Lufthansas eternal disgrace? Why is it? It's the co pilots fault no one else's.

I suppose that in 'your world' if the co-pilot had been cleared by a Doctor as fit to work, you would now be calling for that incompetent Doctor to be sued and prosecuted.

TTmonkey

20,911 posts

246 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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If he had long planned this specific event, then I'm not buying the medical depression angle as the sole cause for tragedy. A contributing factor maybe, but most people with depression SIMPLY DO NOT ACT IN THIS WAY- FACT.

To me, he sounds like some kind of unstable egotist, who wants his name to be known forever in infamy. He wants his place in the history books, his name to live on long after death. The easiest way for this is not to do something fantastic and worthy, but to do something terrible.

We all remember the name of Michael Ryan for his Hungerford massacre, we remember Raoul Moat for killing a policeman and gaining an instant fame on facebook and Thomas Hamilton from dunblane, infamous as killers and immortalised on Google search engine and Wikipedia pages.....

So who remembers the names of real heroes and good people that pass away? Can anyone name the Police officers shot down in the line of duty over the last ten years? Or the soldiers awarded the posthumous Victoria Crosses from Iraq and Afghan? Sure some people can, the educated and interested, but the general public will forget these good people.

This man that killed 149 people knew his name will be plastered across the Internet and print media in death. It's the memorial he wanted. Infamy, so much easier to achieve than sainthood. It can be achieved in minutes through selfishness and it can last forever. Some freaks will even worship him for his actions.


It would be better if we had a system that erases this mans name from every possible record. I won't even type his name. He should be wiped from the collective memory of the world, as should all such attention seeking ego maniacs. They should be referred to as a coded number or something. The media age is creating a memorial for these people's very actions to ensure that they aren't forgotten. It should be the other way around.

groucho

12,134 posts

245 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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Why is there sympathy for this bloke? "He wasn't in his right mind" etc. Would we be getting the same reaction if he cut open the throats of a mother and her kids outside a school? I'm sure a load of nutters that do that kind of thing are "Not in their right minds"

Where's the difference?

mondeoman

11,430 posts

265 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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JensenA said:
What am I on about? I'm talking about the opinions of people like you. Who think it is totally acceptable to always want to sue someone. This is no ones fault, apart from the man who flew the plane into the mountain.
I don't remember any posts you made on Forums highlighting the dangers of rouge pilots who might want to kill themselves. So perhaps it is to your eternal disgrace that you kept these thoughts to yourself, you could have saved the lives of 150 people if you had campaigned long and hard enough, shame on you. It's to Lufthansas eternal disgrace? Why is it? It's the co pilots fault no one else's.

I suppose that in 'your world' if the co-pilot had been cleared by a Doctor as fit to work, you would now be calling for that incompetent Doctor to be sued and prosecuted.
What a dumb response. There is nearly always someone at fault in an accident, something that wasn't done right or should have been done. Like this one, email from doc to employer and he wouldn't have been on the plane. That's a system failure, which we can learn from and correct going forward.

cardigankid

8,849 posts

211 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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Even Lufthansa/German Wings now accept that this individual should not have been flying, 'slipped through the safety net' is their expression. This appears to be a situation of such gross negligence that liability to pay compensation is a near certainty.

All I am saying, and I am surprised that it is controversial, is that no one who has shown signs of mental instability, whether 'cured' or not should be allowed to work in a job like an airline pilot. I believe that airlines like the RAF should be able to drop people from pilots courses without stated reason or liability. I always thought that airlines had a seriously rigorous training process which eliminated the psychologically weak. If that is no longer the case, I'll be taking the train in future.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
quotequote all
cardigankid said:
Even Lufthansa/German Wings now accept that this individual should not have been flying, 'slipped through the safety net' is their expression. This appears to be a situation of such gross negligence that liability to pay compensation is a near certainty.

All I am saying, and I am surprised that it is controversial, is that no one who has shown signs of mental instability, whether 'cured' or not should be allowed to work in a job like an airline pilot. I believe that airlines like the RAF should be able to drop people from pilots courses without stated reason or liability. I always thought that airlines had a seriously rigorous training process which eliminated the psychologically weak. If that is no longer the case, I'll be taking the train in future.
As you clearly don't know much about mental illness, it's not just something you will always have or show signs of when you join an airline.

You might suffer from it during your career though.

As you want people dropped from the airline. They are unlikely to admit they are suffering or get help.

Your fantastic plan results in more people with mental illness flying aircraft. That's not really a good outcome is it?

JensenA

5,671 posts

229 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
quotequote all
mondeoman said:
JensenA said:
What am I on about? I'm talking about the opinions of people like you. Who think it is totally acceptable to always want to sue someone. This is no ones fault, apart from the man who flew the plane into the mountain.
I don't remember any posts you made on Forums highlighting the dangers of rouge pilots who might want to kill themselves. So perhaps it is to your eternal disgrace that you kept these thoughts to yourself, you could have saved the lives of 150 people if you had campaigned long and hard enough, shame on you. It's to Lufthansas eternal disgrace? Why is it? It's the co pilots fault no one else's.

I suppose that in 'your world' if the co-pilot had been cleared by a Doctor as fit to work, you would now be calling for that incompetent Doctor to be sued and prosecuted.
What a dumb response. There is nearly always someone at fault in an accident, something that wasn't done right or should have been done. Like this one, email from doc to employer and he wouldn't have been on the plane. That's a system failure, which we can learn from and correct going forward.
Because I disagree with you my opinion is a 'dumb response' is it?! You have the mindset that everything is someone's fault. So let's just assume that a system is in place, that a Doctor has to email the employer with a sick note. What happens if the Doctor consider someone is fit to work, and doesn't issue a sick note, and then the person goes and crashes a plane? Is it now the Doctors fault? The result of your perfect system is that Doctors would be issuing sick notes and emailing employers willy nilly just to protect themselves from litigation. No one, including you, could have foreseen this happening.

RobinOakapple

2,802 posts

111 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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If a person calmly decides to kill himself and take a large number of people with him so that he will be long remembered, he isn't necessarily mentally ill in a way that can be diagnosed anyway.

The risk of something like this happening again can possibly be reduced, but not to zero. People will have to decide for themselves, as they already do if they think about it at all, whether the reward of the travel is worth the risk involved.

Things are going to carry on pretty much as before. They always do.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
quotequote all
Well I think the beeb has sunk to a new low, they are running a story about how much compensation the families will receive for losing a family member in the crash.

I think this is disgusting, I know the media is obsessed with telling us how much everything costs but please..

bitchstewie

50,781 posts

209 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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cardigankid said:
All I am saying, and I am surprised that it is controversial, is that no one who has shown signs of mental instability, whether 'cured' or not should be allowed to work in a job like an airline pilot. I believe that airlines like the RAF should be able to drop people from pilots courses without stated reason or liability. I always thought that airlines had a seriously rigorous training process which eliminated the psychologically weak. If that is no longer the case, I'll be taking the train in future.
What happens if your train driver snaps?

I agree with the general sentiment that you don't want mentally ill people flying planes.

Where it gets tricky is that if you make it that black and white it doesn't encourage anyone to come forward, so you end up with mentally ill people flying planes where nobody had the first clue because they hid it very well.

Silver993tt

9,064 posts

238 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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gottans said:
Well I think the beeb has sunk to a new low, they are running a story about how much compensation the families will receive for losing a family member in the crash.

I think this is disgusting, I know the media is obsessed with telling us how much everything costs but please..
The prosecutors have been whipping up the whole situation about compensation because they get a big percentage. They really don't give a monkey's about the families. I think that the vast majority of any payouts should go to charity with immediate and near term costs to the families covered.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
quotequote all
Prosecutors, getting their knickers in a rwist, who would have thought it but who are they going to prosecute? The perpertrator died in the crash, he deliberately lied to his employer in a convincing way and beat all the security checks the airline is required to have.

Is anyone else having a dilbert moment...

Foppo

2,344 posts

123 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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Like a sky reporter standing outside the co pilot parents house reporting.

The pilot's parents have lost their son go home sky nothing to see here.


User33678888

1,141 posts

136 months

Saturday 28th March 2015
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el stovey said:
User33678888 said:
I call bullst on being empathetic. This was murder. He intentionally killed 140+ others. If he wanted to commit suicide so much there are much better ways for everyone concerned.
He's not acting rationally though, he's suffering from mental Illness.
So is Anders Breivik. Doesn't stop him being a mass murderer.

Edited by User33678888 on Saturday 28th March 09:55