Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(
Discussion
Sheepshanks said:
Hainey said:
My Spring 2015 BALPA mag came in the post today, complete with an article obviously written before the tragedy. The subject?
How we can all expect to be alone in the cruise for a few hours in the flight deck as we all shift to single pilot cruise flying.
I rather doubt that now.
You wouldn't have wished this, but it's an ill wind...How we can all expect to be alone in the cruise for a few hours in the flight deck as we all shift to single pilot cruise flying.
I rather doubt that now.
Apparently French magazine Paris Match could watch a video taken from the plane and recovered from the debris and they describe the content of it.
I did not look on their website as I feel already bad enough about those poor people on board to feel the desire for a deeper knowledge of their last moments...
I am however outraged that such info is given to magazines... I think it is a total lack of respect for the families, but unfortunately that's how things seem to go these days.
I did not look on their website as I feel already bad enough about those poor people on board to feel the desire for a deeper knowledge of their last moments...
I am however outraged that such info is given to magazines... I think it is a total lack of respect for the families, but unfortunately that's how things seem to go these days.
Oakey said:
They haven't published it and the description makes it sound like it doesn't show much.
Here it is http://m.parismatch.com/Actu/International/Exclusi...Starfighter said:
Who the hell approved that to be released to a gossip rag?
If it's the video I've heard about (I'm not going to watch it) it was initially leaked to Bild, which is to all intents and purposes the German Daily Mail. It seems "everyone" hates it but it does manage to get the scoops somehow. davepoth said:
If it's the video I've heard about (I'm not going to watch it) it was initially leaked to Bild, which is to all intents and purposes the German Daily Mail. It seems "everyone" hates it but it does manage to get the scoops somehow.
"German Daily Mail" - that is a vile and cruel slander!!! Still, Bildzeitung is a red-top and anyone can judge their content Here just by scanning the web page. No need for linguistic skills: just look at the pictures!davepoth said:
If it's the video I've heard about (I'm not going to watch it) it was initially leaked to Bild, which is to all intents and purposes the German Daily Mail. It seems "everyone" hates it but it does manage to get the scoops somehow.
Although naturally curious/nosey, I'm not going to watch it either. Nor would I ever contemplate watching an ISIS beheading video. This video equates, in my mind, to someone watching a child being abused: the deed is already done, no-one is -directly- harmed by watching, but an audience encourages those who propagate such filth and gives them a reason to repeat their actions. In the case of the video described here, it only serves to demean the memory of the victims and to further distress their relatives. I cannot imagine how watching the final moments of the doomed passengers could possibly be a positive experience for any *normal* person. So the last shocking aircraft atrocity through terrorism meant we reduced the number of permissible entrants and frequency of access to the cockpit, now the reaction to GermanWings crash is to increase the number of people who have access to the cockpit and the frequency with which the door is opened...
Mandown46 said:
brenflys777 said:
So the last shocking aircraft atrocity through terrorism meant we reduced the number of permissible entrants and frequency of access to the cockpit, now the reaction to GermanWings crash is to increase the number of people who have access to the cockpit and the frequency with which the door is opened...
Completely different circumstances/events. I'm unsure of the point you are trying to make.brenflys777 said:
The need to be seen to do something shouldn't force change.
Agreed. What should force change is the emergence of a new risk. Given that this is the second case of pilot suicide/passenger murder this year (plus possibly the MH370 crash plus possibly previous incidents as the Egyptair crash in 1999)then steps need to be taken to deal with this new risk. Having a minimum of 2 crew in the cockpit would seem a sensible way of dealing with that.
Bluebarge said:
brenflys777 said:
The need to be seen to do something shouldn't force change.
Agreed. What should force change is the emergence of a new risk. Given that this is the second case of pilot suicide/passenger murder this year (plus possibly the MH370 crash plus possibly previous incidents as the Egyptair crash in 1999)then steps need to be taken to deal with this new risk. Having a minimum of 2 crew in the cockpit would seem a sensible way of dealing with that.Do you think a stewardess (or anyone else) in the flight deck can stop someone who is sitting in front of all the flight deck controls from making the aircraft crash? Having another pilot in his/seat wouldn't stop it. It would take seconds for a pilot to make the aircraft unable to fly. Once someone intent on murder suicide is sitting by the controls it's far too late.
These new rules are there simply to make passengers feel more comfortable. For that reason alone I'd support them but they won't make it any more difficult for any other pilot to do the same as this bloke did.
woodypup59 said:
Having had no answer before, I have to ask again :-
Why can't the cabin crew radio to ATC in an emergency ?
Because they don't have a VHF or HF radio in the cabin. Why can't the cabin crew radio to ATC in an emergency ?
They could use their mobiles or a sat phone (if fitted) and they had reception and numbers of every ATC centre and they knew which one they were flying near to.
el stovey said:
How do these new rules stop or even reduce pilot murder-suicide?
Do you think a stewardess (or anyone else) in the flight deck can stop someone who is sitting in front of all the flight deck controls from making the aircraft crash? Having another pilot in his/seat wouldn't stop it. It would take seconds for a pilot to make the aircraft unable to fly. Once someone intent on murder suicide is sitting by the controls it's far too late.
These new rules are there simply to make passengers feel more comfortable. For that reason alone I'd support them but they won't make it any more difficult for any other pilot to do the same as this bloke did.
They could presumably prevent the suicidal flight crew from preventing the other pilot returning to the cabin.Do you think a stewardess (or anyone else) in the flight deck can stop someone who is sitting in front of all the flight deck controls from making the aircraft crash? Having another pilot in his/seat wouldn't stop it. It would take seconds for a pilot to make the aircraft unable to fly. Once someone intent on murder suicide is sitting by the controls it's far too late.
These new rules are there simply to make passengers feel more comfortable. For that reason alone I'd support them but they won't make it any more difficult for any other pilot to do the same as this bloke did.
Not a complete answer for sure, but inertia is not an option, so it will have to do until there is time to design an alternative/additional response.
Bluebarge said:
el stovey said:
How do these new rules stop or even reduce pilot murder-suicide?
Do you think a stewardess (or anyone else) in the flight deck can stop someone who is sitting in front of all the flight deck controls from making the aircraft crash? Having another pilot in his/seat wouldn't stop it. It would take seconds for a pilot to make the aircraft unable to fly. Once someone intent on murder suicide is sitting by the controls it's far too late.
These new rules are there simply to make passengers feel more comfortable. For that reason alone I'd support them but they won't make it any more difficult for any other pilot to do the same as this bloke did.
They could presumably prevent the suicidal flight crew from preventing the other pilot returning to the cabin.Do you think a stewardess (or anyone else) in the flight deck can stop someone who is sitting in front of all the flight deck controls from making the aircraft crash? Having another pilot in his/seat wouldn't stop it. It would take seconds for a pilot to make the aircraft unable to fly. Once someone intent on murder suicide is sitting by the controls it's far too late.
These new rules are there simply to make passengers feel more comfortable. For that reason alone I'd support them but they won't make it any more difficult for any other pilot to do the same as this bloke did.
Not a complete answer for sure, but inertia is not an option, so it will have to do until there is time to design an alternative/additional response.
What's the other pilot going to do? The suicidal guy has all the controls right there in front of him/her? He just starts switching stuff and turning things off and doing some aerobatics. The other pilot couldn't stop it even if they were sitting on his knee.
Our friend in German Wings decided to take a while to reach the mountain but he would have changed his plan and done it in seconds had the other pilot opened the door.
There will always be ways around security measures and 'what ifs' will continue.
The issue here seems to be about mental health and stopping someone like this being in the situation where he is in control of 150 lives, rather than xyz door system. Whether this is by tougher rules, or more sypmathetic employers, I genuinely dont know.
I do think that mental health has been the poor relation to physical health for years, and if this tragic mass murder can help to establish mental health as a mainstream concern, not to be brushed under the carpet, then it could be a small positive which over time could come to affect far more than the 150 deaths has negatively affected.
The issue here seems to be about mental health and stopping someone like this being in the situation where he is in control of 150 lives, rather than xyz door system. Whether this is by tougher rules, or more sypmathetic employers, I genuinely dont know.
I do think that mental health has been the poor relation to physical health for years, and if this tragic mass murder can help to establish mental health as a mainstream concern, not to be brushed under the carpet, then it could be a small positive which over time could come to affect far more than the 150 deaths has negatively affected.
Maxf said:
The issue here seems to be about mental health and stopping someone like this being in the situation where he is in control of 150 lives, rather than xyz door system. Whether this is by tougher rules, or more sypmathetic employers, I genuinely dont know.
Exactly.A new door or having more people in the flight deck does nothing.
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