Germanwings A320 crashed in France :(

[KTF]

Boydie88 said:

As for other questions about the oxygen masks, read about the Helios flight. Pilots misread warnings of a slow pressure loss before it knocked them out.

Helios was a Boeing. This incident was an Airbus where the ECAM is not shy of letting you know (and well in advance) that there is an issue with the cabin pressure.

[StevieBee]

NinjaPower said:

I shouldn't watch so much Air Crash Investigation.... It makes me worry about flying

There was a series a while back called black box. The stat' that stuck with me at the end of the series was that you'd need to fly constantly and continuously for 300 years before you are involved in an air accident and even then the chances are greater of you walking away than even suffering an injury.

We sadly hear of fatal road accidents daily (and sometimes see them) yet we think nothing of getting into our cars every day yet the risk of injury or death is huge compared to air travel.

[anonymous-user]

KTF said:

Helios was a Boeing. This incident was an Airbus where the ECAM is not shy of letting you know (and well in advance) that there is an issue with the cabin pressure.

Neither is the 737's pressurisation system but the pilot(s) overrode it.

[Muddle238]

Boydie88 said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

El Stovey is pulling your leg a little bit.

He is/was a commercial pilot (unless I am messing up my PH usernames...!) In any case, to descend on auto pilot you do need to input and then select/confirm the level with a positive action.

But could a few faulty instrument readings trick the auto pilot into a descent?

As for other questions about the oxygen masks, read about the Helios flight. Pilots misread warnings of a slow pressure loss before it knocked them out.

Now I am not Airbus type-rated so I don't know the ins and outs of the Airbus systems, but on a Boeing if you push the control column whilst the autopilot is engaged, it can enter a separate mode called control wheel steering. For example, you are in straight, level flight at FL100, automatics engaged. By pushing the control column forwards, the autopilot shall not be able to hold the selected altitude, the pitch mode in this case "ALT HOLD" will disengage and be replaced by "CWS-P" (control wheel steering - pitch). The automatics shall then maintain the pitch angle set by the control column, for example -1 degrees nose-down. This causes the aircraft to descend. However as no roll input was made, then the automatics shall continue to fly the specified LNAV track or HDG SEL if under RV.

Of course this first requires an input from the pilot, for example accidentally leaning on the control column. An audible warning should alert crews however upon leaving the specified/cleared FL, then they will have ATC in the headsets trying to make contact.

The Airbus equivalent of CWS-P/R may well not exist, I don't know. Following the AF447 investigation, I'm led to believe that different Airbus side-stick inputs on each side of the flight deck will cancel each other out, whether that has any bearing on the 4U9525 investigation I do not know.

[JuniorD]

StevieBee said:

There was a series a while back called black box. The stat' that stuck with me at the end of the series was that you'd need to fly constantly and continuously for 300 years before you are involved in an air accident and even then the chances are greater of you walking away than even suffering an injury.

300 years is a great stat, but dosen't give much comfort to those who will die on their very first flight...

[Asterix]

doogz said:

StevieBee said:

There was a series a while back called black box. The stat' that stuck with me at the end of the series was that you'd need to fly constantly and continuously for 300 years before you are involved in an air accident and even then the chances are greater of you walking away than even suffering an injury.

We sadly hear of fatal road accidents daily (and sometimes see them) yet we think nothing of getting into our cars every day yet the risk of injury or death is huge compared to air travel.

Averages are great.

Unfortunately, they happen to precisely no-one.

Well, technically - 1 person out of 7 odd Billion.

[Hainey]

el stovey said:

KTF said:

Helios was a Boeing. This incident was an Airbus where the ECAM is not shy of letting you know (and well in advance) that there is an issue with the cabin pressure.

Neither is the 737's pressurisation system but the pilot(s) overrode it.

We did that one on MCC course. I'll not speak ill of the dead but that FO....blimey. Bad day at the office waiting to happen was that old fella.

[danjama]

Does anybody else suspect pilot suicide?

[johnxjsc1985]

danjama said:

Does anybody else suspect pilot suicide?

probably best to wait for more information before that kind of speculation

[The Moose]

Davie_GLA said:

onyx39 said:

It's a 787.
Still in the air.
Currently atFL7 descending into LGW

Was destined for MBJ. Wonder what caused that turnaround!

Was on a flight from LHR to MIA a few years ago now. Got over 3 hours into the flight and had to turn back as some dhead smacked a trolly dolly around a bit. He was arrested and escorted from the plane. We then were refuelled, about to take off...and they then had to find a new flight crew as ours would be over-hours.

I think that was supposed to be just over a 9 hour flight and turned into nearly 20 hours. Great fun!!!

[danjama]

johnxjsc1985 said:

probably best to wait for more information before that kind of speculation

I agree I wouldn't normally speculate but just wanting to air my thoughts based on what we've seen. Sorry.

[johnxjsc1985]

danjama said:

I agree I wouldn't normally speculate but just wanting to air my thoughts based on what we've seen. Sorry.

at this point I think anything is possible the black box recorder may well give the information required .

[The Moose]

Out of interest, how long does it usually take to review the recordings and publish their findings so to speak? I imagine it'd be as quick as possible and if they have located the recorders, we could have an answer as early as tomorrow?

Quick closure and all that?

[SpeckledJim]

Asterix said:

doogz said:

StevieBee said:

There was a series a while back called black box. The stat' that stuck with me at the end of the series was that you'd need to fly constantly and continuously for 300 years before you are involved in an air accident and even then the chances are greater of you walking away than even suffering an injury.

We sadly hear of fatal road accidents daily (and sometimes see them) yet we think nothing of getting into our cars every day yet the risk of injury or death is huge compared to air travel.

Averages are great.

Unfortunately, they happen to precisely no-one.

Well, technically - 1 person out of 7 odd Billion.

A 300 year old person with an Air Miles account to die for.

[Muddle238]

JuniorD said:

300 years is a great stat, but dosen't give much comfort to those who will die on their very first flight...

Many of the injuries/fatalities associated with commercial aircraft accidents are often a result of the subsequent evacuation or post-crash events.

- Air Canada 797 in Cincinnati, 1983 - 23 fatalities as a result of fresh air/oxygen entering the cabin after an emergency landing for smoke in the cabin, causing a flashover

- British Airtours 28M in Manchester, 1985 - 55 fatalities following a fire, after a sucessful aborted takeoff

The highest percentage of commercial accidents/incidents occur during take off or landing, but as the above incidents show, it's not always necessarily the impact which is the biggest threat. An emergency is not over as soon as the wheels touch the runway and then aircraft comes to a stop, panic can spread in an already tense cabin, especially if full of smoke, and unfortunately it becomes a free-for-all to find an exit and get out.

As already stated in this thread, accidents during the cruise are much less common, but when they do occur the greater separation between aircraft and terrain, subsequent search for wreckage and time to find survivors (because the aircraft will be somewhere other than an airport with rescue crews on alert) makes the chance of survival very slim. Access to crash sites and the organisation of a rescue effort is always terrain/weather dependant which are both often factors in the accident in the first place.

As pictures of the 4U 9525 crash site are beginning to appear online, the wreckage scatter field suggests high-speed impact. We hope that for the souls on board, it was instant and that there was no post-impact suffering.

[Cobalt Blue]

Der Spiegel is reporting that 'several' Lufthansa and Germanwings pilots are refusing to fly. Mentioned is that the accident aircraft spent several hours grounded at Düsseldorf yesterday, allegedly a nose gear door problem.

BBC, quoting Der Spiegel, mention a Germanwings incident in 2010 when both pilots nearly passed out whilst landing at Cologne, possibly due to contaminated cabin air.

[Zad]

The altitude and speed graphs are interesting. It looks to have climbed to cruise, then climbed again (possibly to cross the Alps) and in descending it has maintained ground speed.



https://twitter.com/NewsHazbail/status/58043325740...

[el romeral]

If the pilot or co pilot needed to use the toilet, would he have to wait until the plane was at cruising height in order to leave the cockpit, and therefore his co worker, alone?

Do they both have a key on their person to get back in again?

[Scotty2]

Bugging me the coincidence of a heading for Barcelonette as an accidental input into autopilot after leaving Barcelona. Accidentally set wrong destination then a nap once reached cruise, followed by a rude awakening as "Terrain" alarm goes off too late?

I hope not.

[allnighter]

I wonder with modern technology, why is there no form of CCTV recordings across the whole plane and even outside, all linked to the black box so investigators are not working blindly trying to piece together different data to get the whole picture. CCTV both inside and outside the plane would provide a more clear picture surely?